I played in Blackmoor after Greyhawk. Dave ran it the same way, but when there was an encounter he'd get out a laminated hex map and draw the area and place figures.
OK. I'm asking because apparently the Blackmoor game used some sort of table that Dave had to transport from the Cities to Lake Geneva to demonstrate the game to Gary, if I remember correctly. I was wondering exactly how that diorama was used in the game.
I love the 'eye candy' aspect but in a large dungeon where players can explore as they wish it doesn't really work; what if they go to an area other than the one you've so painstakingly set up?
Given three clear directions in which to proceed, PCs will choose the fifth.
Ain't that right LOL.
The way I do it is that I organize the dungeon complex differently.
A level or single plane of the complex is organized in terms of contained exploration units which are good for a session or two of exploration. That's basically a game unit in space rather than time. So rather than say a session = an expedition back and forth to the dungeon, you have a particular 3D set up = a session or two.
So on that diagram each fleshed out area is a "game session unit" so to speak.
Each particular set up has a defined number of exits. Now of course the players can leave the neatly prepared set up any time they want. When the players basically leave the area, you go on with the game with a 2D support instead (I use white boards and tact-tiles) or simply do it for the remainder of the session using just vocal descriptions and sketches.
Then the next session you set up the new area they are in. And rince repeat.
Something like this...
Doesn't work with the kind of set up I just explained because the map itself hasn't been built in terms of diorama-units as I just described above. You can still use some 3D stuff occasionally though, particularly if you end a session knowing where the PCs are and you have a cliffhanger on some sort in the middle of a huge battle for instance, and then using that knowledge, you can build the immediate tactical terrain for the next session, finish the cliffhanger, and then go on the exploration using more standard means (i.e. the DF was a set piece, once the PCs leave the area you move on for the rest of the session and use some white board or no minis at all or whatnot).
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #16 on Sept 18, 2012, 10:04am »
In the past I was of the "recreate the map exactly" type. I don't really like that, as DM, so the last time I ran I tried it faster and looser. I would describe rooms vaguely, ignoring all the abnormal bits so I give them the major geometric shape, XYZ dimensions, and exits. If the players ask for any specifics I provide them. When in hallways I only describe as far as the light allows unless they tell me they keep going until they reach a door or branch, then I will give them the details as in "hallway goes 20', then 10' wide branch on the left, then 60', then turns right, then 20', ends in a door." Yes, the player map did have some parts that looked different than mine, but they figured it out talking amongst themselves "this corridor here connects to this hall over here, it's just a few squares off." In my opinion, t worked great so I'll be doing that again the next time I DM.
Joined: Jul 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 477 Karma: 37
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #17 on Sept 18, 2012, 11:08am »
Well, that's just a different approach. One element of the "duplicate the map" style is that you can have hidden things and if the players' map is accurate enough they can deduce the presence of things they haven't found: "there must be a secret door either here or here..."
That's how Rob Kuntz got his Staff of Wizardry; he deduced the location of the treasure and still had to spend two and a half REAL HOURS searching for a secret door to find it.
Michael Mornard -------------------------- Played in the original Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and EPT Campaigns "Gronan of Simmerya" aka "Old Geezer" aka "LORD Grumpy"
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 297 Karma: 18
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #19 on Sept 18, 2012, 8:13pm »
What works for me in presenting caverns and dungeons are intricate complex exact maps for the DM (me) and huge sheets of paper for the players on which I scribble obviously inaccurate representations but in addition describe verbally the environment as truthfully as possible in a dialogue with the players. So ultimately the responsibility lies with the players to verbally explore their environment with judicious questions which improve the accuracy of the initial scribbles.
Well, that's just a different approach. One element of the "duplicate the map" style is that you can have hidden things and if the players' map is accurate enough they can deduce the presence of things they haven't found: "there must be a secret door either here or here..."
That's how Rob Kuntz got his Staff of Wizardry; he deduced the location of the treasure and still had to spend two and a half REAL HOURS searching for a secret door to find it.
Mike: I didn't know Rob had ever run an MU?---or, did Robilar find the staff?
Michael Mornard -------------------------- Played in the original Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and EPT Campaigns "Gronan of Simmerya" aka "Old Geezer" aka "LORD Grumpy"
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 521 Location: The Maze of Peril Karma: 27
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #24 on Oct 2, 2012, 1:12am »
That's some pretty impressive stuff there, benoist!
I started with figures and table-top dungeon layouts from the word go, so mapping for my players has usually been a case of copying what they see on the table. I used dominoes at first, but they kept falling over, then I moved on to the old cardboard dungeon floor plans, which I'm still using today.
Joined: Feb 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 146 Location: South of Heaven Karma: 11
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #25 on Oct 2, 2012, 7:49pm »
Pretty much as gronan says, but slightly wordier. If the PC's map is dreadfully wrong, I correct it. If the area is really complicated, I help out a little. I'm not infallible when it comes to descriptions and their PCs are actually there. Also, I worry about corrections less in a curvy natural cavern area (where deducing the location of secret areas is less relevant) than in a manmade area (where those secret areas can be more relevant).
My guys derive a lot of pleasure and utility out of having their maps, so it's an important part of our games and we try to make it work to everyone's satisfaction. So far, so good.
friends, i was wondering how do you DM dungeons crawls, in the "mapping aspect".
i mean, do you describe the rooms, corridor and such by measure (a 3x3 room with...) and the mapper goes..mapping;
or you do the map as the PCs advance in scenario?
and then? what if the map is wrong? do you help the players?
how do you handle mapping and gaming?
I use miniatures, erasable battlemaps and verbal descriptions, but the players map is up to them and I just draw the rooms as they are convenient so they aren't necessarily going to be lined up with the previous. The map I draw on the battlemap doesn't always face North and it can cause real confusion with players who do not map. I warn them about this once, but after that the players are on their own.
Re: About mapping the dungeons « Reply #27 on Oct 3, 2012, 5:42pm »
I consider the players ability to keep an accurate map to be part of the challenge, so I wouldn't correct their map unless I realized I had made a mistake in describing things to them. I usually don't battle mat or dwarven forge anything, unless their is a combat going on, so all the hall wandering is on the PCs to get right.
Sean, I like the set up. will have to steal your idea as i am teaching my children how to play. i do have a question, where did you get the character sheet?
Sean, I like the set up. will have to steal your idea as i am teaching my children how to play. i do have a question, where did you get the character sheet?
Don't remember. Somewhere on this board, I'm sure!