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Post by foster1941 on Jun 25, 2007 12:21:44 GMT -6
(Cross-posted from the K&K Alehouse)
The following text covering miscellanesous construction costs for strongholds is present in the 4th printing of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Volume III (The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures) on pp. 21-22, but is missing from the 5th and 6th (OCE) printings. This is the most significant content (as opposed to spelling or formatting) difference I've spotted between the various printings of OD&D:
I assume this text wasn't deleted intentionally and that leaving it out was simply an editorial oversight.
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Jun 25, 2007 20:18:24 GMT -6
It may simply have come back to the space thing, and they deleted that to offset some other change to avoid adding pages
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Post by murquhart72 on Jul 8, 2007 16:13:38 GMT -6
Looks like I'm gonna have ta get me one o' them thar 4th printin's!
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Post by Rhuvein on Jul 19, 2007 10:30:34 GMT -6
It may simply have come back to the space thing, and they deleted that to offset some other change to avoid adding pages Yeah, it's interesting. There seems to be extra room at the top of page 21, but no page number at the bottom. Thanks for posting this, Trent.  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 7, 2007 22:10:42 GMT -6
It's also interesting that the diagrams for all of the castle construction stuff seem to have changed a lot between 4th and 5th printings. I assume that this is where the text happens to have vanished, when those pages were reformatted.
My 4th printing tU&WA has some basic line art castle parts with some sort of light shading. The numbers would appear to be hand-written instead of typed, and one has to wonder if this was a once a larger page xeroxed and shrunk in size to fit the pamphlet format of OD&D.
The 5th printing version of the same page has similar diagrams, except that they were clearly re-drawn and much darker. The shading is almost black instead of faint gray. Names and numbers are typed at this point instead of hand-written.
Not that amazing a revision, but interesting nonetheless.
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Post by foster1941 on Dec 10, 2007 11:32:08 GMT -6
The sample dungeon level at the beginning of Vol. III was also redrawn between the 4th & 5th printings, and the one in the 4th printing is much more interesting -- it's drawn on a faint-but-visible square grid, it uses the "standard" D&D mapping symbols (little rectangles for doors, box with a x in the middle for covered pits, etc.) and it's much clearer that it's just a sub-section of a larger level (IIRC you can make out some additional rooms & corridors beyond what's described in the book). The same map in the 5th printing is redrawn with no grid, non-standard mapping symbols, and everything outside of the described rooms filled in solid black.
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Post by coffee on Dec 10, 2007 12:21:29 GMT -6
Foster, is it sufficiently different that posting a scan would be of any use? Or is it the exact same dungeon, just presented differently?
I have the 6th printing, so I'm always interested in what came before.
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Post by foster1941 on Dec 10, 2007 13:23:52 GMT -6
It's the exact same dungeon presented differently. It might still be worth posting a scan, though. When I get home tonight I'll look into the feasibility of doing so (I'm not exactly the most tech-savvy person around...).
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Post by coffee on Dec 10, 2007 13:53:53 GMT -6
That would be cool, thanks!
I'm still not sure how to add pictures to these posts myself. Perhaps someone who knows more about this sort of thing could explain it to us? I know I have a few things I'd like to share with the group, if only I knew how.
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Post by grodog on Dec 10, 2007 19:13:21 GMT -6
I've always wondered about the old school sample dungeons, and kind of figured that the one in OD&D was drawn for EGG or RJK; seeing the earlier version (my earliest copy is a 5th) would definitely be interesting  |
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Post by foster1941 on Dec 10, 2007 22:39:14 GMT -6
OK, let's see if this worked:  |
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Post by foster1941 on Dec 10, 2007 22:50:28 GMT -6
I've always wondered about the old school sample dungeons, and kind of figured that the one in OD&D was drawn for EGG or RJK The entire sample level, but especially the sections around areas 2, 4, and 8, appears quite similar in style to the map of Greyhawk Castle level 1 posted by the ENWorld mods from their OD&D game with Gary at this year's GenCon. I don't think this sample map actually represents a level from Greyhawk Castle, I'm pretty sure Gary created it specifically for the book, but I do think it is representative of Gygax's mapping style c. 1973. |
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Post by foster1941 on Dec 11, 2007 0:12:24 GMT -6
While I've got everything out and prepped (and before I forget how to do it all) here's another tidbit from the 4th printing OD&D set -- the "missing" piece of art from p. 35 of Vol. I:  Not too great a piece, even by the low standards of the OD&D set's art, but nonetheless a fun curiosity for those who only have a 5th+ printing |
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Post by coffee on Dec 11, 2007 3:04:59 GMT -6
Very nice! Thanks, have an exalt for those.
Now, quick: Tell me how you did that!
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Post by dwayanu on Dec 11, 2007 13:18:32 GMT -6
If this works, here's an image I uploaded for a discussion at Dragonsfoot. What I did was: 1) Scan the page, then use the Gimp to crop and save the image as a .jpg file. 2) Open an account with the Mediafire file-hosting service and upload the image. 3) Choose the "Forum Embed Code" and copy the link. 4) Open the posting feature here and click the "Insert Image" button in the "Add Tags" section. 5) Paste the code between the tags, then edit it so I get the right result. (I deleted the whole first bit, which refers to a thumbnail, plus the "URL" and "IMG" tags.)  |
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Post by grodog on Dec 12, 2007 22:56:32 GMT -6
Thanks Trent! |
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Post by coffee on Dec 12, 2007 23:21:42 GMT -6
Cool! Now I can post images here too!
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Post by grodog on Apr 10, 2008 9:56:36 GMT -6
Perhaps we can get this thread stickied, Fin? I can never find it when I want it |
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Stonegiant
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
100% in Liar
Posts: 240
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Post by Stonegiant on Apr 10, 2008 15:08:29 GMT -6
Hey Trent- How different was the write up of the two dungeons? Because the maps are definitely different in their quality.
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Post by foster1941 on Apr 10, 2008 15:58:52 GMT -6
Hey Trent- How different was the write up of the two dungeons? Because the maps are definitely different in their quality. The write-ups are exactly word-for-word the same (to the point that, IIRC, there's a reference in the text to something on the map that was changed so that the reference doesn't make sense in the 5th+ printing version). (Looks at the text): Yeah, the description of area 1 mentions that the "stairs down lead through blind passages..." The earlier map shows the stairs, but the later version doesn't, so this reference makes no sense. Also the refence in 8 to the pit being an X (when on the later map it's a P in a circle) and the map key having a symbol for "Under Floor Passage" that is used in the earlier version (in area 8) but not the later one, but those are pretty minor -- the missing staircase is what I was thinking of. |
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Stonegiant
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
100% in Liar
Posts: 240
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Post by Stonegiant on Apr 10, 2008 16:05:18 GMT -6
Thanks!
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Post by murquhart72 on Apr 10, 2008 19:05:54 GMT -6
Oh yeah, I'm definably hunting down a 4th edition in hard copy now!
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Post by foster1941 on Apr 10, 2008 19:10:03 GMT -6
Oh yeah, I'm definably hunting down a 4th edition in hard copy now!Why stop there? Go for a 1st and join TheGreatHierophant's club  |
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 10, 2008 19:27:03 GMT -6
And here I thought I really had something with my 1974 rules set that still says "Hobbits" and "Ents". It turns out my copy is a fifth printing.  |
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Post by grodog on Apr 15, 2008 20:50:51 GMT -6
Pshaw: a 5th's nothing to sneeze at geoffrey |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 27, 2009 13:10:57 GMT -6
And here I thought I really had something with my 1974 rules set that still says "Hobbits" and "Ents". It turns out my copy is a fifth printing. No doubt. Here I thought I was done with my 6th print + Chainmail, my 5th print + Chainmail + supplements, and my "beater" hand-modified 6th print + Chainmail + supps. Now I have to go find a 4th printing, too. The first or second print woodgrain is always going to taunt me; that doesn't count. |
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Post by Falconer on Mar 28, 2010 23:12:21 GMT -6
I don’t think Foster reads/posts here anymore at all. You’d need to try K&KA.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 19:18:22 GMT -6
While I've got everything out and prepped (and before I forget how to do it all) here's another tidbit from the 4th printing OD&D set -- the "missing" piece of art from p. 35 of Vol. I: Not too great a piece, even by the low standards of the OD&D set's art, but nonetheless a fun curiosity for those who only have a 5th+ printing Any chance of getting this reposted? See that it was reposted! Thank you! |
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Post by dragondaddy on Oct 3, 2014 19:17:48 GMT -6
(Cross-posted from the K&K Alehouse) The following text covering miscellanesous construction costs for strongholds is present in the 4th printing of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Volume III (The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures) on pp. 21-22, but is missing from the 5th and 6th (OCE) printings. This is the most significant content (as opposed to spelling or formatting) difference I've spotted between the various printings of OD&D: I assume this text wasn't deleted intentionally and that leaving it out was simply an editorial oversight. This is interesting. The first set of white books I owned had the Fighter on the cover, I think that was the 4th printing. I don't remember this table. Where I did see this though, in an almost identical form is on page 18 of the Judges Guild Wizards Guide. Wizards Guide had the Catapults all broken down by catagory Onager 335 Gp Mangonel 400 Dart Thrower 20-120 ------------------------ Portable Launcher 70-120 Cauldron & Oil 50 Portable Covered Ram 1000 ------------------------ Siege Tower 2000 Springel 300 Trebuchet 700 Mantlet 20 Screw 1000 Ladder 30' 5 ------------------------ Ramparts 2000 180'x20'x5' high ------------------------ Moat or Ditch 2000 180'x20'x10' ------------------------ Earthworks 1000 180'x20'x10' ------------------------ Wood Palisade 1500 180' There was a bunch of other construction costs as well as a Time to Construct formula which got heavy use in many of my campaigns. |
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