I still have (sans box) Chaosium's Thieves' World set based on the seminal "shared world" fantasy anthology series.
The Traveller write-ups served as a meet reminder that literary magic is not made up of pigeons fit for rigidly defined game-mechanical boxes.
In the TW set, either 1st ed or 2nd ed boxset there were a number of pages of how to convert back and forth between Traveller and TW which in combo with the ingame tech levels and wide range of weapon data, by adding TW you could according to the material, play your traveller character in a fantasy holographic enviorment.
But nothing ever limited it to a holoworld. with a little tinkering you could easily have a full blown game in any time period or genre with traveller - with or sans magic.
gotta love the Traveller openess like OD&D, especially the the LBB 1-3 - just as OD&D.
It is no wonder that OD&D and Traveller are tied for #1 in my favorite games of all times.
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 245 Location: Behind the Orange Curtain Karma: 10
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #16 on Jun 25, 2008, 3:27pm »
By the way - Finarvyn:
1) You have way too much time on your hands, a fact for which we are all extremely grateful.
2) If anyone ever DOES put together an OGL version like this, I'll bet you could sell a few of the box-and-book-cover sets so we can all staple the pages into them. ...just a thought, now... No pressure...
Edit: Dang, checking the image properties, I see it links to a blog in Germany... ...OK, I wonder if he plans to actually sell those mockups.
1) You have way too much time on your hands, a fact for which we are all extremely grateful.
2) If anyone ever DOES put together an OGL version like this, I'll bet you could sell a few of the box-and-book-cover sets so we can all staple the pages into them. ...just a thought, now... No pressure...
Edit: Dang, checking the image properties, I see it links to a blog in Germany... ...OK, I wonder if he plans to actually sell those mockups.
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #19 on Jun 25, 2008, 8:28pm »
That Wanderer mock-up just blows me away. It just screams old School coolness. I found (on the same thread that Fin found the photo) a link to a set of rules for making fantasy characters with Traveller rules, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put together Wanderer, a 70's style sword & sorcery game with the Traveller rules set and mentality.
The game will focus on characters that are older, wiser, and more experienced than starting characters found in games like D&D. The world will be darker and more gritty as befits a true S&S backdrop. I'm thinking that it's going to look something like the Black Company novel series.
And yes, it will be possible for characters to die during CharGen. Survival in a bleak and godless world is never a sure thing.
I'm going to run it by my players tomorrow night and see if I can have an adventure ready to go by the July 4th holiday.
That Wanderer mock-up just blows me away. It just screams old School coolness. I found (on the same thread that Fin found the photo) a link to a set of rules for making fantasy characters with Traveller rules, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put together Wanderer, a 70's style sword & sorcery game with the Traveller rules set and mentality.
I put together a 15-page rules set similar to what you suggest (probably using the same fantasy rules from the thread) and using my Wanderer graphic. Problem is that I'm not familiar enough with Traveller to really know what it's lacking in order to be somewhat complete.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 942 Karma: 27
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #21 on Jun 26, 2008, 8:46am »
In my experience, the main thing is to come up with appropriate skills (because you'll be cutting a number from the list), and then to draw up career tables.
Slings, bows and crossbows are defined in Supplement 4. There was an article (part of a scenario series) in Challenge magazine listing additional weapons and armor for medieval TLs, but I think it was for MegaTraveller. I have simply substituted similar things (e.g., mesh for mail), sometimes with a 1- or 2-point DM.
I liked Striker a lot, but generally found it more work than it was worth to design vehicles. On the rare occasions when tanks or the like figured in a role-playing scenario, I "eyeballed" the odds of different results. Mostly I looked for 20th-century functional equivalents and then factored in TL differences.
That kind of approach generally works well for me. Great detail in rules tends to create an expectation that new things should be just as carefully defined. That can greatly slow down the game if new things (or even a wide variety of things) come up often. That really came home to me in "universe hopping" (a la Heinlein's Glory Road, for example) games!
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 245 Location: Behind the Orange Curtain Karma: 10
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #22 on Jun 26, 2008, 12:41pm »
The first question to ask about this (hopefully soon NOT to be-) hypothetical game 'Wanderer', is "what is the setting to be?"
The box art and the title of the 'Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society' stand-in "The Scrolls of Skelos" clearly imply a Conan-esque Hyborean setting, though the titles of some of the later 'Skelos' issues hint more at late-medieval.
Perhaps we should assume that the original 'Wanderer', like the black box Traveller, was a setting-free toolkit for creating any sort of fantasy campaign, and it was only later that the "Hyborea" really started to solidify.
So, should this be broadly compatible with Classic Traveller, or should it be more focused on possible fantasy backgrounds? In other words, do we leave the range of 'Tech Level' intact, or do we alter the range to fit the fantasy theme?
In CT, Tech Level (TL) 0 is the stone age; TL1 is about the level of Ancient Rome; TL2 is the late Medieval to the early Renaissance; TL3 is the late Renaissance through the 'Age of Enlightenment', TL4 is the Steam Age (mid 19th century); TL5 goes through WWI to the 1930s ('Full Metal Alchemist' territory)... and after that any application to fantasy starts to break down (unless you want to have modern or near-future campaigns like "Buffy" or "The Dresden Files", which admittedly could be interesting.)
It would not be too difficult to apply the traveller stats for star systems to villages, towns, and city-states: just ditch the first three stats ('size', 'atmosphere', and 'hydrographic percentage'), and tweak the Government Type and Law Level a bit, but by how much should Tech Level be adjusted? What sort of stories/settings are you going to eliminate? Full Metal Alchemist? Deadlands? "Pirates of the Caribbean"?
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Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #23 on Jun 26, 2008, 1:21pm »
Ah, and I see a game like Wanderer as a setting-free thing, much the way that OD&D was setting-free.
My thought would be to include the generic races (elf, dwarf, hob---afling) amd basic classes (fighter, thief, cleric, magic-user) but not to try to tie it to a specific setting. That way anyone could use it for their own campaigns.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Ah, and I see a game like Wanderer as a setting-free thing, much the way that OD&D was setting-free.
Ahh, I see the thrust of my questions got lost amongst the wool-gathering. My main question is 'what limits do we put on "Fantasy"?' Do we limit the rules to CT's TL 3, possibly stretching that range out so it fits a 0-12 or even 0-15 range; or do we leave the full sweep of technologies intact, letting referees use the 'fantasy' rules in "magitech" space-age settings if they so desire?
Traveller Tech level 15-16 is starting to seriously bump up against Clarke's Law.
I seem to recall that one of the published adventures - "Divine Intervention" - required the players to impersonate gods, using high tech wizardry and effects to convince the locals... I forget what they were trying to acomplish, though.
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Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #27 on Jun 26, 2008, 4:31pm »
Oh, I'd probably cut it off with TL3, as a general rule. While I love "age of steam" stuff, it doesn't usually fit in the generic fantasy environment most of the time.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #28 on Jun 27, 2008, 4:13pm »
I would definitely keep it at a maximum of TL3.
It would be very important to have a system that would allow you to create fully-fleshed commulites from tiny villages, to towns, to cities and city-states, all the way up to (cruel and oppressive) empires, all with equal style and detail, much like the world-builder system they had in Traveller.
You would definitely need to expand the weapons selection, although not to a staggering degree. You would need to show exactly what weapons are available in what areas. Detailing the weapons in terms of damage and capability should come second: in most S&S fantasy, a skilled warrior can do about as much damage with a sword, spear, or mace. As a matter of fact, the amount of damage a character can do should be more a reflection of the character's level and melee skill than a funciton of the weapon itself. This would balance out character choices a bit: a character who keeps rolling on the profession table might end up with a character who is skilled enough to do more damage with his weapons, but at the cost of starting play as an older hero with significantly less life ahead of him.
I would make the classes reflect sword & sorcery character tropes. You would be looking at:
Assassin: Skilled in the arts of sudden death, the assassin might be a guilded professional, or a rogue with a Death Mark on his head.
Noble: Belonging to an influential house or order, the noble adventures either at the behest of his family or to further his own ends.
Savage: A character skilled at surviving in the wild and far tougher than civilized folk. He might be a barbarian, or raised by wolves.
Sellsword: A travelling (wandering) warrior who makes his living by the skill of his blades. He rarely stays in one place long.
Sorcerer: Having entered into a pact to gain great arcane powers, the sorcerer might be good or evil, but will be feared wherever he treads.
Thief: The ultimate freebooter who lives off his wits and agility. The thief is streetwise and well-connected, living his life one step ahead of the Law.
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 942 Karma: 27
Re: Traveller as a Universal Game System « Reply #29 on Jun 27, 2008, 4:58pm »
Why add dwarves, elves and hobbits? The basic Traveller set does not specify nonhuman characters! As it's not a "Star Trek" game, the fantasy version should not be a "Middle Earth" game IMO.
Six "services," as in the original, seems a proper number. Remember that particular skills define the character's expertise -- so "classes" a la D&D may not be such a good fit.
Classic S&S fiction overwhelmingly pits swordsmen against sorcerers. I suggest treating "magic" much as "psionics" are in Traveller. If you want be a magician, pursue that course (by entering the game) while young. It's not something to take for granted.
As S&S protagonists tend to be "jacks of many trades," such distinctions as mercenary vs. thief vs. assassin in the "services" might be counter-productive.
An alternative might be different geographic / cultural origins. A Northern Barbarian, a Civilized man, a Jungle Savage, and Nomads of the Steppes and of the Deserts might all have different spreads of skill results. Whether one is a noble or a commoner properly depends on the Social Standing characteristic.
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