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Original D&D Discussion :: Dungeons & Dragons (1971-1978) :: OD&D Study :: The nature of religion in D&D

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Topic: The nature of religion in D&D (Read 938 times)

leon
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The nature of religion in D&D
« Thread Started on Dec 31, 2010, 4:01am »

Hey, I think this is an interesting topic for study!

The LBBs have a couple of quirks which make them quite distinct from the later editions of the game and I think even from supplement I: Greyhawk.

First of all, considering the cleric and anti-cleric class, its abilities, spells, level titles, and the use of the word cross in equipment (instead of holy symbol of the later editions) it is quite obvious we have a pseudo-christian setting, where the cleric resembles a militant priest of the crusades (and he can turn undead like in the vampire movies).

Second, there's no mention of god or gods in the books. It's simply Help from "above" (M&M p. 7 discussing the building of strongholds by clerics) or the powers "above" (M&M p. 33 in the Commune spell). This is probably because Gygax didn't want to go so "deep" in religious themes, since D&D is just a game (if memory serves that's what he said in an interview). A medieval Christian background is simply assumed, but never explicitly mentioned.

Third, unlike the latter editions of the game and even Greyhawk, spells are not certainly divinely given. While this is most probably something which was considered obvious from the authors, so no need to be mentioned, there are two things which bring this to question. First, clerics must carry spell books (or prayer books if you will) and memorise their spells exactly like magic-users (M&M p. 34 Books of Spells). Second, and most important, Clerics can research spells (M&M p. 34 Magical Research) just like magic users. What's the point of doing this if all spells are given by god?

Unlike later editions of the game, Clerics are either Law or Chaos (perhaps worshipping God or Satan), there don't seem to be neutral clerics. Or, in the 5th print and later, a cleric can be neutral up to 7th level (M&M p. 7). This has been discussed at length here, so no need to go further into it. But one has to ask: if we assume that a neutral cleric exists (at least until 7th level), from whom does he get spells and how? Now the strange thing is that in Greyhawk a neutral Cleric is explicitly mentioned (in Book of Exalted Deeds entry p. 58): "A Neutral Cleric will suffer the loss of one level of experience".

With all of the above, it's interesting that god or gods, are not as interventionist as in the later editions. He or they may not really grant spells and the cleric might be doing pretty much the same as the magic-user. Perhaps the cleric is tapping on the god's power (like magic users are tapping on otherworldly forces), but without the god actually doing the spell donning. If that's the case, god (or his messengers) only help with the building of strongholds and by providing guidance with "commune". The only thing clerics will lose if they change sides is their stronghold, their spellcasting ability seems to be intact. Perhaps God or Satan are waiting converts with open hands and immediately accept them to their fold and grand them spells. Which is very convenient, opposed to later editions where if you shun your religion or trespass its dogma you will lose spellcasting ability (and the probability that god will strike you down) and there's not a 100% chance that some other god will offer to hire you.

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chicagowiz
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Re: The nature of religion in D&D
« Reply #1 on Dec 31, 2010, 10:12am »

I look at questions/considerations like this from a wargamer's perspective. Most wargamers that I know tend to like black/white situations on their table. It makes sense, from that perspective, that there aren't neutral clerics (battles are Law v Chaos, Good v Evil), gods are less intrusive and clerics are slinging spells like mages. I think it was only after RPG'ing became a "force" in and of itself that it shook off the wargamer's POV and started looking at the issue from a broader perspective.

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talysman
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Re: The nature of religion in D&D
« Reply #2 on Dec 31, 2010, 5:52pm »

My own particular take is that the cleric's undead turning power (but not the spells) comes from faith that the universe is an orderly place, not from a god, so Lawful clerics are united in faith even if the religions they belong to are not. Neutral clerics have no such unity; they represent people who believe in a specific religion (dogmatics;) Chaotic clerics are heretics hiding within Lawful religious orders, or open demon worshipers. A Lawful Patriarch/Matriarch can start a new religious order and attract devotees, sort of like what happened with the founding of real world religious orders (Franciscans, Dominicans, Jesuits.) An Evil High Priest can set up a secretly-corrupt schismatic order or an openly diabolical cult. But neutral clerics are just following along in the religion they were raised and can't be true religious leaders. If they pick a side, though, they can attract like-minded devotees and start a religious order, schism, or cult.

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cooper
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Re: The nature of religion in D&D
« Reply #3 on Jan 3, 2011, 3:58pm »

Dec 31, 2010, 10:12am, chicagowiz wrote:

I don't know about the earlier printings, but the 3rd edition of CHAINMAIL has a chart showing Law, Neutral, and Chaos. With Lycanthropes (Beorn-type) being the heroes and super-heroes of Neutrality.

Some in the list are underlined (elves, rocs) which denotes a slight disposition for Law. Gygax recommends rolling a dice to determine which side such forces will fight for in the battle.

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aldarron
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Re: The nature of religion in D&D
« Reply #4 on Jun 12, 2011, 5:40am »

Dec 31, 2010, 4:01am, leon wrote:

Perhaps the cleric is tapping on the god's power (like magic users are tapping on otherworldly forces), but without the god actually doing the spell donning. If that's the case, god (or his messengers) only help with the building of strongholds and by providing guidance with "commune". The only thing clerics will lose if they change sides is their stronghold, their spellcasting ability seems to be intact.

This bit strikes me as brilliant! The 3LBB's are deliberately vague about the whole higher powers thing. The "commune" spell refers to "powers above" (note the plural) and has strict limits on how often a cleric can actually be in conversation with those powers and "contact higher plane" refers to grades of supernatural creatures. So I think we are already seeing polytheism of some kind assumed, and, most importantly, not omniscient beings.

So, presumably, god(s) don't always know what's happening or might presumably not always be listening for a clerics spell/prayer request. It makes perfect sense then that the god has somehow granted the cleric access to a reserve of power, triggered by a particular prayer or chant which the cleric can access pretty much any time.

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