I honestly had this same gripe with Pirates of the Caribbean, which I see as this generation's Star Wars. The first movie was action-packed, didn't dwell in angst, and was just a heck of a lot of fun. Then for movies 2-3 they had to fill in symbolizm, characters agonizing over things, complex plot twists...
Yep, the first Pirates of the Caribbean is a lot of fun, with its own Luke (Will Turner), Leia (Elizabeth Swann), and Han (Capt. Jack Sparrow). I can watch it over and over.
The second PotC has a few good parts (mostly on the isle of the cannibals), but I don't like most of the film. The third PotC was a complete loss as far as I'm concerned. Ugh.
I didn't like Davy Jones much as a villain, his ship was too gimmicky, and the whole third movie didn't make much sense. Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley were lucky to get their characters written out for v.4.
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: What I wish Star Wars had become. « Reply #17 on Sept 19, 2010, 10:25am »
But if they had cranked out a dozen movies just like the original PotC, I would have gladly gone to see them all. Just like the original SW.
By the way, this is one thing I like about the original Star Trek from the '60's. (Falconer perks up at this point. ) I like the fact that at the end of an episode we end up with the characters roughly the same as the episode began. No long-term angst or life-changing moments, but you could almost watch any of the TOS episodes in any order and not feel like you missed something. If McCoy falls in love in one episode, he's fine by the next. Done, let's move onto the next adventure.
PotC and SW both fall into the "sweeping saga" trap where there are all of these tricky plot twists and cliffhangers and you need to really pay attention in order to keep up. The movies become more of a story arc and less of an adventure.
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themattjon Level 5 Thaumaturgist member is offline
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Re: What I wish Star Wars had become. « Reply #18 on Sept 19, 2010, 1:13pm »
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Re: What I wish Star Wars had become. « Reply #20 on Sept 19, 2010, 4:45pm »
It's true, I find Star Trek TOS to be the ultimate "comfort TV". That tried-and-true formula which dictates that the status quo be regained at the end of the episode is a-ok with me. (Not to mention the "TV home"--the ship--and the "TV family"--the cast, complete with always-right father-figure.
I have been thinking for a while that it would have been ideal to see Star Wars go into a TV Series following the first movie. (Like Battlestar Galactica TOS.) But I guess a series of 12 movies (ideally with the overarching series referred to as "From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker", with "Star Wars" as "Episode 1") with the same idea in mind would have been great, too.
If you look at it from that point of view, in Star Wars we are presented with an initial problem--the Emperor has dissolved the Senate and therefore ended the Old Republic thanks to the Death Star. At the end of the movie, the Death Star is destroyed, ergo the status quo is obviously re-established: no Death Star means the Senate reconvenes.
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
If you look at it from that point of view, in Star Wars we are presented with an initial problem--the Emperor has dissolved the Senate and therefore ended the Old Republic thanks to the Death Star. At the end of the movie, the Death Star is destroyed, ergo the status quo is obviously re-established: no Death Star means the Senate reconvenes.
That's a good way to look at it. With each episode presenting and solving a problem in that one episode, the problem of the Empire is wrapped up in Star Wars I. Then we can move on to other things.
A further thought occurs to me regarding Darth Vader. A number of people have disagreed with my preference to have Vader slain in Star Wars II. I can definitely see where they are coming from, though my preference remains the same. I prefer Darth Vader to be a relatively minor character rather than the central and ultra-powerful figure that he became. This is even evidenced in his appearance, as he got literally shinier with each episode. I'd like to have that go in the opposite direction in Star Wars II:
Remember that Darth Vader's ship was damaged at the end of Star Wars I, and he limped off into space. Imagine Darth Vader's armor as battered (similar to Boba Fett) rather than as shiny in Star Wars II. Further imagine him as a bounty hunter who had been employed by Tarkin to get the Death Star tapes. He failed at the job, and his employer was killed. Now Vader's reputation has taken a blow. Now he wants revenge. Though the grapevine he'd hear that Han Solo owed money to an Irishman (not a giant slug) named Jabba the Hutt. Vader could get hired by Jabba to bring either Solo's money or Solo's head to Jabba. Vader would obviously intend the latter, so off he'd go to take-out our band of six heroes.
No stormtroopers, Imperial ships, or etc. Just Vader and any other strange allies he might acquire in the course of the movie. And Vader's armor would be battered. He wouldn't be the nigh-invincible Sith Lord of ESB and ROTJ. He'd be a former Jedi-turned-traitor-turned-bounty hunter, and he'd look the part.
Admittedly this doesn't have the grandeur of the old Star Wars trilogy. But I'm not looking for grandeur here. I'm looking for pulpy space-fantasy fun. Star Wars II would tie-up the one major loose end of Star Wars I (Vader, who obviously needs to get killed in a lightsabre battle with Luke), and the one minor loose end of Star Wars I (Han owing Jabba money).
Speaking of lack of grandeur, I'd want the movies to be medium-budget films, not bank-busting high-budget films. Why? Because Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher get one year older every year, and we can't afford to spend 2 years in post-production. With a Star Wars film released every year, then the 12th and last episode would be released in 1988. The actors would still be young enough to look the part. But if they were released every three years, then we're looking at a release date for episode 12 in...2010! Age catches even the best of us.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
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Re: What I wish Star Wars had become. « Reply #23 on Sept 20, 2010, 8:09am »
My "alternative Vader" would be not so much a bounty hunter as a robber baron (medieval, not industrial). He's still the Lord of the Sith, whatever that is, maybe something like a fallen Teutonic order or a crusader kingdom. He holds a certain, not insignificant power in a given region, and occasionally serves the highest bidder as a mercenary.
My "alternative Vader" would be not so much a bounty hunter as a robber baron (medieval, not industrial). He's still the Lord of the Sith, whatever that is, maybe something like a fallen Teutonic order or a crusader kingdom. He holds a certain, not insignificant power in a given region, and occasionally serves the highest bidder as a mercenary.
This is very much how I imagined it, too.
Edit -- I mean how Vader seemed to me in the original 1978 movie.
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Re: What I wish Star Wars had become. « Reply #29 on Oct 20, 2010, 10:18am »
On the Vader as a bounty hunter thing...
I was recently reading an article (at the Star Wars official site, oddly enough) about Boba Fett, and in it, there is a quote from Lucas where he actually says Boba was created by splitting off part of his original intentions for Vader. So that theory really does have some weight.
And I assume most of us here know all about how the Vader character developed through the various script drafts. He really was not the major villain, which is why Lucas was surprised by his popularity later. He had memories of all those drafts and knew what his ideas had been for the character.
After McQuarrie drew the breath mask on him, and Lucas then combined the character with his concept for a cyborg (which had been in some of the early drafts, as a different character), they created this monster of an iconic villain. It was almost luck, and most assuredly a combination of ideas from different people that made Vader so powerful a character onscreen.
I really like Vader, and would not personally want him to vanish from the series early on (nor would I want the Empire gone until the end of the serial.) I think he'd make a great recurring villain, even if he was still only working for various "main" bad guys of the Empire. Kind of like Boba Fett, only with the Force at his command as well.
Geoffrey, I am totally on your side with the ongoing serial idea though. While I love Empire Strikes Back and think it's a great, great movie, it does take Star Wars in a new direction, forcing it into a more character driven epic saga instead of a rollicking adventure series. For those of us who were huge fans before there even was an Empire Strikes Back, there is just a whole different feel to the original that was never recaptured.
I would recommend the Al Williamson comic strip stories to anyone who has not seen them, however. They do tie in with the movies, yet retain a strong sense of episodic adventure... just Luke, Han, Leia and friends going on Alliance missions and tangling with various original bad guys (and sometimes Vader, etc.) And of course, the Marvel comics, especially pre-ESB, were also more episodic and had some great ideas.
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) I like the fact that at the end of an episode we end up with the characters roughly the same as the episode began. No long-term angst or life-changing moments, but you could almost watch any of the TOS episodes in any order and not feel like you missed something. If McCoy falls in love in one episode, he's fine by the next. Done, let's move onto the next adventure.![[avatar]](http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt114/themattjon/TheSilverWarrior.jpg "[avatar]")
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