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May 26, 2013, 2:31am

Original D&D Discussion :: Other :: Other Editions and Simulacrum Games :: Swords & Wizardry :: Suggested changes for WhiteBox

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Topic: Suggested changes for WhiteBox (Read 1,423 times)

verhaden
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #15 on Apr 7, 2010, 10:40pm »

I'm not angry over anything or angry at anyone, as an FYI--sorry if that came across the wrong way.

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capheind
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #16 on Apr 8, 2010, 2:07pm »

I think it mostly comes down to marketing, call it a retro-clone and we immediately know what you mean, even if its not technically a true "clone".

Maybe we need special terms for say

near rules exact clone
Osric, Labyrinth Lord

games meant to mimic a certain style of house ruled old-school game
S&W, S&W:WB, probably some others I don't know about

Those simply meant to capture the feel of the classic games either through
being rules light.
I've seen Fudge fantasy games with classes that at least reminded me of my childhood D&D games
through adapting the D20/OGL SRD to the older rules
Microlight20, Microlight74, C&C

but that all would probably get so confusing that attracting new players to our games would become even more maddening than it already is.

As for the original topic, what I'd change about S&W:WB, or S&W core for that matter, absolutely nothing. Its a great game, and mimics a very rules light "Lets just get on with it" style of play thats exceedingly fun. If I want a near rules exact clone thats what LL is for, if I want to stray from center more, thats what really rules light games like fudge are for.

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pineappleleader
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #17 on Apr 8, 2010, 2:50pm »

Apr 7, 2010, 7:50pm, John Adams wrote:

Apr 7, 2010, 6:59pm, thebane wrote:

And Wenches... Hmmm Witches & Wenches supplement anyone?

Best,
TB

I think you may be on to something here.

It is called the "Hot Chicks RPG". Sadly "Adults Only". But, there you have it.

Come to think of it the 1975 edition of Empire of the Petal Throne has a couple "topless" b&w line art illustrations in it.

Maybe you are on to something. Tastefully done, of course.

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Finarvyn
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #18 on Apr 8, 2010, 8:23pm »

Apr 7, 2010, 6:59pm, thebane wrote:

And Wenches... Hmmm Witches & Wenches supplement anyone?

I think I'd buy a copy. Oh, wait. Wasn't there a Dragon magazine article on this?

Yeah! Len Lakofka's article "Notes on Women and Magic" in Dragon #3 (1976). Len set up female-gender fighter, magic-user, thief, and cleric classes with different abilities and whatnot.

Heck, I'd buy Witches & Wenches anyway!

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pineappleleader
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #19 on Apr 8, 2010, 8:39pm »

Apr 8, 2010, 8:23pm, Finarvyn wrote:

Apr 7, 2010, 6:59pm, thebane wrote:

And Wenches... Hmmm Witches & Wenches supplement anyone?

I just looked at the Dragon article. All women characters have spells of Seduction, Charm Men or Charm Humanoid Monster depending on their level and beauty scores. MU and Clerics have other spells usable only by women.

Wild stuff!

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danbuter
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #20 on Apr 9, 2010, 4:15pm »

Apr 8, 2010, 2:07pm, capheind wrote:

Waste of time. Something about the most hard-fought battles are over the most inconsequential details, except this isn't academia.

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capheind
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #21 on Apr 9, 2010, 11:00pm »

Meh, I'm in the middle of trying to write an adventure module for Labyrinth Lord, and waiting for baited breath for my S&W WhiteBox set to ship, so clearly I'm groovy with the lot of them.

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pineappleleader
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #22 on Apr 10, 2010, 2:27pm »

Apr 9, 2010, 11:00pm, capheind wrote:

Meh, I'm in the middle of trying to write an adventure module for Labyrinth Lord, and waiting for baited breath for my S&W WhiteBox set to ship, so clearly I'm groovy with the lot of them.

I look every day in the mail box too see if mine has arrived yet.

Unless you are a penguin who just ate a hardy meal check out this thread. The post you want is on the first page, second from the bottom:

http://bravehalfling.forumotion.net/open....corner-t142.htm

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thebane
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #23 on Apr 10, 2010, 11:23pm »

Apr 7, 2010, 7:50pm, John Adams wrote:

Apr 7, 2010, 6:59pm, thebane wrote:

And Wenches... Hmmm Witches & Wenches supplement anyone?

Best,
TB

I think you may be on to something here.

Run with it! (But not scissors!)

On a serious note and to answer what I would change... very little, other than what I perceive as an inflated XP requirement for Magic-users. YMMV.

Best,
TB

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Fandomaniac
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #24 on May 30, 2010, 9:31pm »

The rules are coming along nicely, but I'm still looking for something much closer to the original source material. I understand that due to legal reasons, some things must be different, but there are so many differences that it resembles more of a seriously house-ruled version of OD&D than a retro-clone.

Here are some of the discrepancies I've found:
The racial abilities do not match the original source material at all. Also, the Halfling's "Deadly Accuracy with Missiles" has always been translated from Chainmail as +1, not +2. It has been +1 in almost every version of D&D and most other retro-clones. I would really prefer to see these re-written to be truer to the original material or listed as "Optional House Rules" or not listed at all as it is in the S&W Core Rules.

All weapons should be listed as 1d6 damage regardless to size. Again, bonuses and minuses could be listed as "Optional House Rules".

The XP system for the original source material is 100xp per Hit Dice.

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waysoftheearth
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #25 on May 30, 2010, 10:57pm »

May 30, 2010, 9:31pm, Fandomaniac wrote:

Also, the Halfling's "Deadly Accuracy with Missiles" has always been translated from Chainmail as +1, not +2. It has been +1 in almost every version of D&D and most other retro-clones.

I'm pretty sure that it says Hobbits are +3 to hit with slings in the errata printed in the back of supplement I. I will quote the exact text for you tonight...

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tombowings
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #26 on May 31, 2010, 12:46am »

May 30, 2010, 10:57pm, waysoftheearth wrote:

May 30, 2010, 9:31pm, Fandomaniac wrote:

Also, the Halfling's "Deadly Accuracy with Missiles" has always been translated from Chainmail as +1, not +2. It has been +1 in almost every version of D&D and most other retro-clones.

I'm pretty sure that it says Hobbits are +3 to hit with slings in the errata printed in the back of supplement I. I will quote the exact text for you tonight...

Waysoftheearth is correct. According to page 68 of Supplement 1: Greyhawk, "All hobbits add +3 to hit probabilities when using the sling."

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waysoftheearth
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #27 on May 31, 2010, 6:09am »

Thanks Tombowings

that's exactly what I see in my 4th print.

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Fandomaniac
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Re: Suggested changes for WhiteBox
« Reply #28 on May 31, 2010, 9:54am »

Yes, but S&W Whitebox is suppose to clone the core 3 LBBs minus the supplements. If you going to list anything outside the core 3 LBBs, they should be listed as "optional house rules".

However, if you include Chainmail as part of OD&D core, I personally agree with Philotomy's view (from philotomy.com) that the Hobbit's "deadly accuracy with missiles" translates as a +1 to hit with slings.

Also, S&W Whitebox list this as:
"Deadly Accuracy with Missiles: Halflings receive a +2 'to-hit' when firing missile weapons in combat."
That's +2 with all missile weapons. To be true to Chainmail, the bonus should only be with slings or weapons involving "stones".

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