Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 192 Location: San Diego, Ca Karma: 13
Dungeon! with Chainmail « Thread Started on Sept 14, 2011, 6:31pm »
Until a few days ago I had never really read Chainmail nor understood the combat references in the LBB. I've been going through the boards here and trying to educate myself and it struck me that Dungeon! is really based on the Chainmail Fantasy Combat Table. Sure it's a little simplified when it comes to the players being attacked but otherwise the numbers line up neatly.
I've been thinking about Dungeon! and a possible remake for a while now because it is such a good game to use for beginners. It's also a game that can easily fit in an hour of play. The whole "hey it's chainmail" thought is interesting because it would be easily to really expand out the monsters and spells and other parts of the game because it's all basically there.
Just thought I'd share the thought while it was on the top of my mind.
Oe, Chainmail, Delving Deeper, Labyrinth Lord Society, GangBusters, Boot Hill 1e...
Joined: Feb 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 880 Location: Harrisburg, PA USA Karma: 72
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #1 on Sept 14, 2011, 6:57pm via the ProBoards Mobile App »
Very interesting! I, too, have wanted to understand and play Chainmail, but have never had the opportunity to play, and therefore just get somewhat befuddled when I struggle through the books. (I confess, I've never given it too much time, but would if had someone else interested)
Megarry was the de facto leader as he understood the campaign area and rules and so he was our overall integration point in the adventure which took place on EGG's dining table.
David Megarry wrote Dungeon! so it makes sense that there is a relationship between Dunegon! and Chainmail.
-Mike
[That same thread also has Rob's statement that Chainmail rules were not really used in early D&D which was mind blowing. Here I was trying to figure out how they did it and he dispells that with a wave. haha ]
Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 192 Location: San Diego, Ca Karma: 13
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #4 on Sept 16, 2011, 5:28pm »
So what I'm thinking might be fun to try, and I'm sure my son will be up to it, is to drop the Monster Attack Table and switch to Fantasy Combat Table from Chainmail. With obvious expansion needed, but instead of just getting killed outright by a successful hit from the monster allow the players to drop 1 treasure per -1 to escape.
So if a Dragon who needs only a 5 against a poor Hero rolls a 7 the hero can drop 3 Treasure pieces, turn the 7 into a 4, and retreat from the room.
The cool part of adopting the FCT from Chainmail is that you can then bring in Magic Items with ease.
Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 192 Location: San Diego, Ca Karma: 13
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #5 on Sept 18, 2011, 4:22pm »
I went through all the monsters in Dunegon! and drew up the list to show how they would be handled under chainmail. There is one or two assumptions the biggest is that the Elf is an Elven Swordsman and fights as a Hero -1, with a +2 bonus vs gobliniods. [Which I'll probably rename to Forest Marauders when I doing out my own charts]. I didn't deal with the slime and pudding.
Here is the list if anyone is interested.
Master List [Lighting, Fireball, Wizard, Superhero, Hero, Elf]
Black Pudding
- 5 12 12 12 -
Dragon [Blue]
- 7 12 10 12 -
(Dragon)
- 7 9 10 12 13
Dragon [Red]
8 - 12 11 - -
(Dragon +1)
8 - 10 11 13 14
Evil Hero
4 5 6 5 7 8
(Hero)
4 5 8 5 7 8
Evil Superhero
7 7 8 7 9 10
(Superhero)
7 7 10 8 10 11
Evil Wizard
11 11 7 11 12 -
(Wizard)
11 11 10 9 11 12
Gargoyle
4 - 6 5 6 7
(Golem -3)
4 - 5 5 7 8
Ghouls
3 3 6 4 6 5
(Ghoul)
3 3 6 4 6 7*
Giant
9 6 10 9 11 10
(Giant)
9 6 11 9 11 12*
Giant Lizard
2 2 5 2 4 5
(Vermin -2)
2 2 6 4 6 7
Giant Rats
7 2 6 3 4 5
(Vermin -3)
7 2 5 3 5 6
Giant Spider
4 3 5 4 6 6
(Vermin -1)
4 3 7 5 7 8
Giant Snake
5 6 9 6 8 10
(Vermin)
5 6 8 6 8 9
Goblins
6 2 5 2 4 3
(Ogre -3)
6 2 5 2 6 5*
Green Slime
6 - 11 10 11 12
Hobgoblins
3 3 6 3 5 4
(Ogre -2)
3 3 6 3 7 6*
Mummy
- 3 8 8 10 11
(Ghoul +3)
- 3 9 7 9 10
Ogre
5 4 8 6 9 8
(Ogre)
5 4 8 5 9 8*
Purple Worm
6 8 12 10 11 12
(Dragon -1)
6 8 8 9 11 12
Skeleton
2 2 6 3 4 5
(Ghoul -2)
2 2 4 2 4 5
Troll
- 7 8 8 10 9
(Ogre +1)
- 7 9 6 10 9*
Vampire
10 10 9 8 10 12
(Ghoul +4)
10 10 10 8 10 11
Werewolf
9 8 7 7 9 9
(Lycan)
9 8 7 6 8 9
Witch
10 10 5 9 11 11
(Wizard -1)
10 10 9 8 10 11
So to my mind the change is not too bad. The big benefit is that now I have a unified resolution mechanic for a wide range of monsters. As well as a base of magic items and spells to make the game more interesting. I'm going to start play testing on this and slowly make a new rule set with the ultimate goal be a standalone game.
Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 192 Location: San Diego, Ca Karma: 13
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #7 on Sept 19, 2011, 12:10pm »
I had not, thanks for pointing it out. I had seen the prototype on Acaeum forums and loved that rich history. I had not seen this other set of threads with yours and zenopus's posts. Great stuff, and of course always goes to show when you think you have a fresh idea you probably don't :).
In any case I'm well on my way to making a new version of the game based on that information and some tweaking [different classes/names, more spells, tables vs cards, quest goals vs straight GP totals.] When I have something playable I'll post it up as a PDF. If it turns out good enough I might try to take it further then that.
I had not, thanks for pointing it out. I had seen the prototype on Acaeum forums and loved that rich history. I had not seen this other set of threads with yours and zenopus's posts. Great stuff, and of course always goes to show when you think you have a fresh idea you probably don't :).
In any case I'm well on my way to making a new version of the game based on that information and some tweaking [different classes/names, more spells, tables vs cards, quest goals vs straight GP totals.] When I have something playable I'll post it up as a PDF. If it turns out good enough I might try to take it further then that.
-Mike
Sounds great. Probably not saying anything you aren't aware of but thought it prudent to point out that neither Dungeon nor CHAINMAIL are OGL material, so "taking it further" could necessitate some changes for legal reasons, depending on what you want to do.
Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 192 Location: San Diego, Ca Karma: 13
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #9 on Sept 22, 2011, 3:05pm »
I was sort of worried about that so I just started from scratch as far as the writing goes, the only piece that is derived is the FCT, so I filed off the "serial numbers" to start with. Then I felt free to make changes as needed.
I have working game now and my son and I just played the first go around. It was a blast, I'm going to open a new thread the "Other Editions" area as it seems to fit there best.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 101 Location: Great Underground Empire Karma: 2
Re: Dungeon! with Chainmail « Reply #10 on Nov 13, 2011, 9:00pm »
Not that I want to sound ignorant or anything, but can someone give me some information about Dungeon!? You've got me really interested but my google searches don't come up with anything relevant.
Dungeon is similar in many ways to Dungeons and Dragons, much simplified and transformed into a board game. Players explore a dungeon that is divided into levels of increasing difficulty, fighting monsters for valuable treasure. As players venture deeper into the dungeon, the monsters become more difficult and the treasure more valuable. There are several character classes that each have slightly different fighting abilities - most notably the wizard, who can cast spells. Combat is simulated using dice - players roll the dice to attack a monster, and if unsuccessful, the dice are rolled to determine the effect of the monster's counter-attack. The winner is the first player to bring a certain amount of treasure back to the Dungeon's entrance.
Michael Mornard -------------------------- Played in the original Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and EPT Campaigns "Gronan of Simmerya" aka "Old Geezer" aka "LORD Grumpy"
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Author
![[avatar]](http://www.stellarcore.net/images/tnt_avatar.png "[avatar]"){kind=avatar}
Logged![[avatar]](http://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3632089479/384133a24f0d799205d632883fe0448e.jpeg "[avatar]")
![[homepage]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
haha ]![[avatar]](http://www.jastabinksaviation.com/6614pf.JPG "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/beware-the-dragon.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z17/tmpiper/90x90.jpg "[avatar]")
.