Joined: Nov 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 1,555 Location: Austin TX USA Karma: 152
A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Thread Started on Aug 12, 2011, 10:59am »
This game (link below) claims to be based on Gary's notes for OD&D, if I'm reading it correctly. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it is available now. If anyone has knowledge of the it, I would love to read a serious review.
Falconer Level 9 Sorcerer Cleric of OD&D member is offline
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #1 on Aug 12, 2011, 2:13pm »
It's already available. Click on the links to Lulu at top and check out the preview. 12 pages of pure gold! Sure, those 12 pages don't actually show any gameable material, but it DID explain to me that this RPG will change my life and show me how to make D&D 'what it could be, what it once was'. Honestly, I was waiting for DCC to show me how to make roleplaying fun and immersive again, to save me from modern sensibilities while retaining modern mechanics, and reveal what Gary REALLY intended, but I can now say that the wait is over!
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #2 on Aug 12, 2011, 2:38pm »
I am tempted to get a copy, but it has a couple of things working against it in my book.
1. There is no free version
2. The character sheet looks an awful lot like 4E. I played 4E and didn't like it, so even looking a little bit like 4E kind of scares me.
3. The hype kind of put me off. The whole "biggest thing in RPGs since 1974" claim is somewhat bothersome to me. I also have mixed feelings about the Gail Gygax endorsement.
But enough of that nonsense, you didn't ask for my thoughts, especially since I haven't even read the rules!
It looks like Tenkar is writing some stuff about it:
Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #3 on Aug 12, 2011, 2:56pm »
I like what I've read so far, but I jump around something awful. My blog posts do not cover the sections in order, so if you want to read along from home it's going to be painful
The hype turned me off to the Kickstarter project that supported the funding, but I've been very pleasantly surprised by the finished project. There is alot to like about it.
I'm sure I'll have more posts on The Secret Fire this weekend.
Joined: Nov 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 1,555 Location: Austin TX USA Karma: 152
Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #4 on Aug 12, 2011, 2:58pm »
Actually, I'd love to hear your thoughts, and anyone else's, because I'm not sure what to think. If the claims by the author are true, this project has some real potential. If not, well ...
Joined: Nov 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 1,555 Location: Austin TX USA Karma: 152
Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #5 on Aug 12, 2011, 3:01pm »
Oh ... and apparently there is a 'blog. I'm amazed this project slipped by me until now. Has it been flying under the radar or did everyone else know about this?
3. The hype kind of put me off. The whole "biggest thing in RPGs since 1974" claim is somewhat bothersome to me. I also have mixed feelings about the Gail Gygax endorsement.
I guess I would be more excited about this if it was being launched by someone that I associated with the old days. If Rob Kuntz, for example, was promoting a product like this I would really pay attention.
I know that there are two versions of Legends & Labyrinths. One was supposed to be a 1E-4E bridge (which sounded cool) and the other its own game (which did not).
I guess I'll wait for someone else to risk the money, then see what they have to say about it.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #7 on Aug 12, 2011, 3:46pm »
I have to leave work momentarily, but I'll come back to this thread.
My group and I actually ran a playtest session for the beta rules that you can read about here. That started a lengthy correspondence between me and George Strayton and his design team, which eventually led to me suggesting some changes to the rules, and eventually contributing some original material (my "Devil's in the Details" articles from Fight On! 1-3, plus one extra). So a caveat: I'm now listed as a developer, and plan to continue writing for the game.
That said, (and Falconer, do I sense sarcasm? ), the game is definitely NOT 4e--it's its own thing. It started as George's homebrewed changes to 4e, and was originally planned to conform to the OGL, but that was abandoned as the game developed.
I agree there's been a lot of hype. George is a screenwriter, and approached the marketing of this from that viewpoint. And, to be fair, he's pretty passionate about the product. He definitely has had access to notes of Gary's that no one else has ever seen, and is working on a film bio of Gary's gaming life. The endorsement by Gail Gygax is sincere.
I'll also say this: there's a HUGE amount of game packed into 300 digest-sized pages. Though there's already a modest schedule for supplementary material, it's good to go as is, without a doubt.
I'm happy to answer any other questions, and perhaps George will pop up (he is a member here.)
Oh, which reminds me: Here's a long thread on this topic as well. To avoid confusion, just keep in mind that that thread was started before the shift to a non-OGL system, and that the game was originally referred to as Legends & Labyrinyths as opposed to The Secret Fire.
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #8 on Aug 12, 2011, 3:54pm »
Well, I looked at the 15-page preview and my socks weren't knocked off. I don't know what to think about it, but of course the preview lacked pretty much anything mechanics-based so we don't know much about how the game actually works. All I know is that nothing in the 15-pages screamed "OD&D" at me.
I also looked at some of the L&L blog pages. Quote:
EXAMPLE 1 (WITH ATTACKER SPENDING ENERGY POINTS): Dave shouts out, “Using my muscular strength, I slash at the Goblin with my longsword Garm’s Tooth, landing a serious blow for 10 points of damage! I finish the attack by slamming my shoulder into the Goblin’s chest, knocking it to the ground!”
I'm not sure I could play this with a straight face.
Ironic that Gary spent so many years claiming that OD&D was not inspired by the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien, then a game that claims to carry the torch dropped by Gary is called "The Secret Fire."
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Joined: Nov 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 1,555 Location: Austin TX USA Karma: 152
Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #9 on Aug 12, 2011, 3:59pm »
Thanks for that info, Kesher. I'd heard of L&L but not under the name-change to TSF. It seemed like this project had come out of nowhere, now I know why!
I'm not sure I could play this with a straight face.
Oddly enough, that's exactly what I thought when Kesher ran his playtest.
There were a lot of things in the game that seemed sort of "tacked on" to inspire roleplaying. They struck me as a little silly. But I stuck with it and the system itself seemed to work (what little of it I saw).
From what Kesher has said to me, and from what I can see of this preview, a lot of the ideas that were not fully formed have gelled. It seems to rely more on the MC taking responsibility for his world and not getting bogged down in statistics -- and that's truly Gygaxian, if you ask me.
Haven't seen the whole thing, but I'd try it again.
Dieter the Deathless, anger-fueled fighting machine.
Falconer Level 9 Sorcerer Cleric of OD&D member is offline
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #11 on Aug 12, 2011, 4:59pm »
I could be wrong, but it seems that Justin Alexander’s Legends & Labyrinths is a totally different project from George Strayton’s Legends & Labyrinths (=The Secret Fire).
It’s all the more confusing because they both seem to be 3e at their core.
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
I could be wrong, but it seems that Justin Alexander’s Legends & Labyrinths is a totally different project from George Strayton’s Legends & Labyrinths (=The Secret Fire).
It’s all the more confusing because they both seem to be 3e at their core.
You're right on the first part, F.---they're completely separate projects. My understanding of JA's project t is that it is indeed a stripped down version of 3e, utilizing the OGL. The Secret Fire is its own game.
And coffee: not suprisingly, you'll get another chance to play...
Well, I looked at the 15-page preview and my socks weren't knocked off. I don't know what to think about it, but of course the preview lacked pretty much anything mechanics-based so we don't know much about how the game actually works. All I know is that nothing in the 15-pages screamed "OD&D" at me.
I also looked at some of the L&L blog pages. Quote:
EXAMPLE 1 (WITH ATTACKER SPENDING ENERGY POINTS): Dave shouts out, “Using my muscular strength, I slash at the Goblin with my longsword Garm’s Tooth, landing a serious blow for 10 points of damage! I finish the attack by slamming my shoulder into the Goblin’s chest, knocking it to the ground!”
I'm not sure I could play this with a straight face.
Ironic that Gary spent so many years claiming that OD&D was not inspired by the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien, then a game that claims to carry the torch dropped by Gary is called "The Secret Fire."
Yeah, from the example of play, I have no interest in this game at all.
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Re: A Gygaxian Legacy: The Secret Fire? « Reply #14 on Aug 12, 2011, 7:00pm »
George plays in my OD&D White Sandbox (he's Martain of Thracia), and I've often played in his 4E games during the early development of what would later become The Secret Fire. He is truly passionate about D&D and its history, and I've enjoyed his approach as a DM and house-ruler.
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), the game is definitely NOT 4e--it's its own thing. It started as George's homebrewed changes to 4e, and was originally planned to conform to the OGL, but that was abandoned as the game developed.
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