Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 168 Location: Blackmoor Karma: 5
MA -- a call for action! « Thread Started on Nov 25, 2011, 12:59pm »
Not trying to troll, but trying to voice an overall disappointment with the way Metamorphosis Alpha is evolving. Here's my take on the state of the game.
Edition I (TSR, 1976) A neat little game. I wish I'd found it when it first came out. This game got support in DRAGON magazine, has been relased in PDF, has a couple of adventures you can buy for it, clearly is the best of the editions.
Edition II (TSR, written for Amazing Engine) A bad move, as MA didn't save a sinking game system and Amazing Engine didn't revitalize an interest in MA. A dead product.
Editions III and IV (Fast Forward and Mudpuppy Games) A smart move, and one which allowed me to discover MA when I found a copy of Jim Ward's Edition III book in a game store. Edition IV is essentially a re-do with tons more material. This was looking like MA Reborn until Fast Forward Entertainment had a collapse.
Edition V (Signal Fire) A bad move for several reasons. 1. Its based on D&D 4E and not compatible with Edition I. 2. D&D 4E has already become replaced by "Essentials" so it's not even published and is already obsolete. 3. Alot of the OSR people who liked the 1976 edition probably will not like the new one. 4. D&D 4E already has WOTC's Gamma World game, which may cater to the same audience which might have bought this new version of MA. 5. This game was announced in 2009 and still is not out yet. As far as I have been able to tell by looking at Google they haven't even set a release date. They aren't even making a new game system, so why 2-3 years to get this out?
My solution: 1. Go out and buy Edition I, either in PDF or from e-bay. (PDF is better since Mr. Ward actually gets money from the sale.) 2. Talk up Edition I. Do it here, do it on other OSR type boards. Make people ask about the game, tell them about the game. Point to these boards (and Fin's posts about the game). 3. Play Editon I at a game store or a convention. Let people see you play and maybe they will want to play it too.
Don't wait for an edition that we might not like and that might not ever get finished. My opinion, lets hear yours!
KELT-SET =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bishop of Blackmoor Found B/X D&D in the 1980's =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 4,676 Location: Near Chicago Karma: 178
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #1 on Nov 25, 2011, 4:36pm »
Well, overall I think that Jim and Craig are doing a decent job keeping the name Metamorphosis Alpha out there. I'd like to see more product relased, but I also don't want shoddy stuff thrown out there just to say something is being published, either. Both Jim and Craig have had health issues recently and that tends to slow things down. WardCo isn't a big company.
I don't know anything about the new edition or whether it will thrive or not, but the old time 1E goodness is still out there and I can play my MA with or without new rules and editions. I agree with your statement about spreading the word about 1E. It's my favorite and has been a great game system for 35 years or so. It would be nice for more folks to hear about it and play it.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Joined: Sept 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 36 Location: Richmond, VA Karma: 3
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #2 on Nov 25, 2011, 9:38pm »
I'm all for the game, at least in its 1E form; my blog is a testament to that. Unfortunately, I don't see much hope with regard to long-term sustainability. Anyone visiting these boards will likely have some appreciation for MA1E, but I don't believe the larger RPG community will embrace an antique. I'm not sure what, if anything, can improve this situation. Either promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain. I'm certainly not casting blame on Jim or Craig, but the situation is not promising.
Joined: Dec 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 294 Location: Miskatonic U Karma: 9
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #3 on Nov 25, 2011, 10:54pm »
It's surviving!
I was someone that missed when it was initially published, but I payed its spin-off, 1ed GW, extensively in my youth. I recently rediscovered MA and I have to say that it is a brilliant RPG. It's a game that I would definitely rope a group of players in to doing in the future.
"Those who swallow the camel of the entire concept, then strain at gnats of a particular monster or situation seem to be be losing much of the basis for playing. However, that sort of thing happens as one becomes familiar with the fanciful and begins to qualify the experience by comparison to reality." - EGG
greentongue Level 5 Thaumaturgist member is offline
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 319 Location: Orlando, FL Karma: 11
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #4 on Nov 26, 2011, 10:19am »
I believe that releasing it as a "rules free" setting would help a lot. The setting is timeless and still valid and viable. In my opinion the only thing holding it back is the unknown rule system. Converting to a current system just restarts the cycle, as every rule system seems to age and fall out of favor. (Leaving the original rules as a default and making a complete package.)
If the setting had been expanded with a myriad "add on" variations off the basic theme, I believe it would still be "current". The concept has a solid basis for fun gaming. =
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2011, 10:21am by greentongue »
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #5 on Nov 26, 2011, 4:21pm »
Seems like nobody talks about the game anymore and there isn't enough support. There is some talk here on OD&D, but the threads are few and far between. There aren't many new items for sale. (Craig did a HOUSE ON THE HILL module and there are rumors of GEOMORPHS that are supposed to be done "soon." Where are the T-Shirts or special MA dice or whatever?)
I think it's dying.
I think that James Ward needs to put together modules of his old notes and campaigns. I'd love to see the original Warden. I'd love to see adventures that I've heard about (Asteroid and Bonnie Browne). There must be some good stuff waiting to be published, since Ward has been GM-ing MA for 35 years!
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 696 Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA Karma: 27
Re: MA -- a call for action! « Reply #6 on Dec 1, 2011, 6:31pm »
Jim has consistently been running MA games at old-school cons like GaryCon and North TX RPG Con, so I think the game's treading water rather than slowly drowning. Jim's certainly had plenty of health issues to contend with, too, which I'm sure impact his ability to support the game in the way that he'd like to.
Regardless, I'll be happy to support the game in whatever ways I can!---it's a wonderful game and setting, and Jim is certainly one of the finest game masters I've ever played under.
I'll be happy to support the game in whatever ways I can!---it's a wonderful game and setting, and Jim is certainly one of the finest game masters I've ever played under.
+1 to this! I'm interested in any way to spread the word about MA!
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
I'm all for the game, at least in its 1E form; my blog is a testament to that. Unfortunately, I don't see much hope with regard to long-term sustainability. Anyone visiting these boards will likely have some appreciation for MA1E, but I don't believe the larger RPG community will embrace an antique. I'm not sure what, if anything, can improve this situation. Either promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain. I'm certainly not casting blame on Jim or Craig, but the situation is not promising.
It always amazes me when I read posts that declare MA "dead". I remember back in 2005-6 representatives of one publisher made quite an effort to convince us the game was dead, so they could publish their own version. We're still here and they are not.
I must disagree with this post on a number of points:
Long-term sustainability - There are very few RPGs that have been around as long as MA, and even fewer still that still have their original author involved. In 2010, we released an adventure for the game, which I think shows at least some intent of supporting previous editions. MAJOR was an attempt to support the 4th edition, and to a degree 3rd edition as well, as was the release of the referee screen.
The project to create the Astounding System, to allow us to support 2nd edition ground to a halt due to work commitments and health issues on my part, but isn't forgotten.
WardCo. is committed to supporting the game, for the long term - we have even chosen a designer with impeccable credentials to take the game into the next edition, working closely with Jim Ward.
Despite being published by several different publishers, the game goes on. If MA hasn't already proven itself to be "sustainable" through the ongoing support of it's original author, then I doubt that any game will ever meet the standard that you are setting.
Quote:
but I don't believe the larger RPG community will embrace an antique
If the reaction to the POD is anything to go by, then the community seems to be welcoming the game with open arms, despite it being an "antique". It's early days yet, and I am sure that a concerted effort of a few determined detractors could easily nobble it.
Quote:
Either promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences requires support that, sadly, WardCo is not prepared to maintain.
I started my original fan site back in 1998, with Bigpond, when I was living on Thursday Island. I started looking into MA3e some months prior to publication and by the time it had been released had a few short amateur adventures on the net - this was back in 2002. I finally launched MetamorphosisAlpha.net back in 2005 and tried supporting all versions of the game since. I also helped with MA4e and coordinated getting MA1e back into publication via RPGNow.
In the meanwhile... Jim Ward has run the game continually at Cons and at home and at friends places, spoken to people about the game, given interviews and answered countless letters and emails and just "been around" answering questions since 1976.
In 2005-6 we even negotiated movie rights for a MA movie, and Jim did up a terrific script which didn't eventuate (thankfully in hindsight!).
The Metamorphosis Alpha graphic novel is in the works and is public knowledge.
Jamie Chambers, one of the guys behind Cortex, the BSG and Serenity RPGs is committed to bringing MA5e to a table near you in the "near" future.
Even prior to the reprint being available, and the expanded store, I have no idea why you would say that we were not promoting 1E long-term or creating a new system more palatable to modern audiences.
Seems like nobody talks about the game anymore and there isn't enough support. There is some talk here on OD&D, but the threads are few and far between. There aren't many new items for sale. (Craig did a HOUSE ON THE HILL module and there are rumors of GEOMORPHS that are supposed to be done "soon." Where are the T-Shirts or special MA dice or whatever?)
I think it's dying.
I think that James Ward needs to put together modules of his old notes and campaigns. I'd love to see the original Warden. I'd love to see adventures that I've heard about (Asteroid and Bonnie Browne). There must be some good stuff waiting to be published, since Ward has been GM-ing MA for 35 years!
I don't know if you've seen the new things we have added since the start of January - I suspect many haven't, but we have a WardCo. store at CafePress with a heap of things for sale. Many of which have been specifically asked for by fans who would "buy one for sure!".
The sales of the t-shirts have been a real eye-opener. Perhaps they will pick up closer to GaryCon, but for the effort to create them, vs the volume of sales - I don't think I'll be driving a luxury car anytime soon
I have been toying with the idea of KickStarting Bonnie Brown to finish the layout and artwork, which is all that is left to do on that project.
However all of my other projects are on the backburner until the hardcover edition of MA1e is completed.
Not trying to troll, but trying to voice an overall disappointment with the way Metamorphosis Alpha is evolving. Here's my take on the state of the game.
I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed, and also appreciate your assessment of the previous editions of the game. Hopefully the recent announcement of the change in direction with MA5e will remedy that.
My solution: 1. Go out and buy Edition I, either in PDF or from e-bay. (PDF is better since Mr. Ward actually gets money from the sale.) 2. Talk up Edition I. Do it here, do it on other OSR type boards. Make people ask about the game, tell them about the game. Point to these boards (and Fin's posts about the game). 3. Play Editon I at a game store or a convention. Let people see you play and maybe they will want to play it too.
Don't wait for an edition that we might not like and that might not ever get finished. My opinion, lets hear yours!
Here's a very good spot for talking about the game. We have our own boards too, but for some reason people are reluctant to join to get access, even though it is free. The most common reason for this I am told is the effort required to log in.
Me personally, I like having spam-free access to a resource dedicated to MA, and a direct line to it's creator.
As I mentioned in some of the responses to posts above, we have released a Lulu version, and every cent of profit from that goes to Jim Ward
I've seen a lot of good feedback from satisfied customers already, but one which has amused me is three people claiming to be disappointed that the Lulu edition doesn't have the hex sheet at the back of the book. I know one was joking, but a couple were serious, with one even claiming that his original version had it. Some people are just determined to not be satisfied.
I gather at least one person has received a copy where Lulu has given them one with a poorly-trimmed cover and glossy pages. The copies I have seen have good covers and regular paper. However, 99% of people sound pretty happy so far. Lulu is pretty good at resolving quality issues with misprints, so I am confident that anything like this is easily resolved.
Jamie Chambers is the guy that's looking after MA5e, and now that he's announced that serious work on MA5e has commenced, I'm sure that you'll see more in future. But you'll need to check the SignalFire Studios site, or our forums.
I believe that releasing it as a "rules free" setting would help a lot.
On the surface, this sounds fine, but then we will always field complaints that the setting doesn't quite fit with a set of rules, and that support is lacking for another rules set.
I did look at this as an option for re-releasing MA2e, but a bit of research shows that systemless settings don't sell that well anyway. Anecdotal evidence from a couple of friends suggests that the best ideas get extracted and put into another company's product and the author and publisher loses out yet again. I guess defending systemless IP is harder.
Like the t-shirts, despite apparent enthusiasm for a product, I don't think we'll see the sales to support the idea.
Well, overall I think that Jim and Craig are doing a decent job keeping the name Metamorphosis Alpha out there. I'd like to see more product relased, but I also don't want shoddy stuff thrown out there just to say something is being published, either. Both Jim and Craig have had health issues recently and that tends to slow things down. WardCo isn't a big company.
I don't know anything about the new edition or whether it will thrive or not, but the old time 1E goodness is still out there and I can play my MA with or without new rules and editions. I agree with your statement about spreading the word about 1E. It's my favorite and has been a great game system for 35 years or so. It would be nice for more folks to hear about it and play it.
Marv,
Once again, thanks for the support. MA is an old game, often overshadowed by it's better-known sibling Gamma World.
We have had a number of opportunities to release products that were less than what we considered ideal, including a d20 release in 2005-6 and a movie form a company that at best could be described as "dodgy".
I hope that we can continue to release products, even if the timetable is a tad slow and more flexible than a "really flexible thingy", that will show that it is quality that we are aiming for, and not just quick bucks.
I am very hopeful that Jim will be able to release further product via Eldritch Enterprises to support MA as well
Marv, Once again, thanks for the support. MA is an old game, often overshadowed by it's better-known sibling Gamma World.
I wouldn't support it if the game wasn't just so darned cool. I find GW to be an okay game, but it seems to be so much more "gonzo" than MA for some reason. With MA I can be serious or crazy, but with GW folks seem to expect crazy.
I'm so glad that 1st edition MA is making a comeback and proud to have had a small role in the process.
Now I just have to remember to buy a copy from Lulu so I don't have to use my old '76 rulebooks any more.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
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