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May 25, 2013, 2:57am

Original D&D Discussion :: Dungeons & Dragons (1971-1978) :: Men & Magic (1974) :: Alternate Fighting Capability idea

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Finarvyn
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Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Thread Started on Mar 25, 2012, 9:47am »

I’ve been thinking about FC lately. FC is supposed to go with the Chainmail combat system. One thing that always bothers me is that entries like “3 Men or Hero -1” imply that a person would get 3 attacks against <1 HD critters or one attack as Hero-1 on the supernatural chart. But most of my combats are against basic creatures more than 1 HD but not as powerful as a balrog or nazgul so the multiple attack thing never comes into play. So, I wondered about trying to link the FC number to a multiple attack chart so that the character gets the same number of attacks versus monsters of any level.

This would all be done with the “Alternate Combat System” from Men & Magic except that one would only use the “Level 1-3” column in the chart. The bonuses and extra attacks are built into my tables below.

I started with the chart in 3E that gave multiple attacks, then tweaked it so that a fighter would get a 2nd attack as a Hero and a 3rd attack as a Super Hero. This is sort of where I began.
+0
+1
+2
+3/+0
+4/+1
+5/+2
+6/+3
+7/+4/+0
+8/+5/+1
+9/+6/+2
+10/+7/+3
+11/+8/+4/+0

I should point out that my earlier chart had each additional attack occurring with a +4 instead of +3. Since I run low-level games I thought it might be better to get those extra attacks early.

Now, to associate this chart with entries in the “Fighting Capability” section of Men & Magic. First, I assigned a number of Men attacking to each row in the list.
1 Man = +0
2 Men = +1
3 Men = +2
4 Men = +3/+0
5 Men = +4/+1
6 Men = +5/+2
7 Men = +6/+3
8 Men = +7/+4/+0
9 Men = +8/+5/+1
10 Men = +9/+6/+2
11 Men = +10/+7/+3
12 Men = +11/+8/+4/+0

Then, I added “Hero” and “Super Hero” to the list:
1 Man = +0
2 Men = +1
3 Men = +2
4 Men = Hero = +3/+0
5 Men = +4/+1
6 Men = +5/+2
7 Men = +6/+3
8 Men = Super Hero = +7/+4/+0
9 Men = +8/+5/+1
10 Men = +9/+6/+2
11 Men = +10/+7/+3
12 Men = +11/+8/+4/+0

Next I tried adding in things like “Hero -1”:
1 Man = +0
2 Men = +1
3 Men = +2
Hero -1 = +2/-1
4 Men = Hero = +3/+0
Hero +1 = +4/+1
5 Men = +4/+1
6 Men = +5/+2
7 Men = +6/+3
Super Hero -1 = +6/+3/-1
8 Men = Super Hero = +7/+4/+0
Super Hero +1 = +8/+5/+1
9 Men = +8/+5/+1
10 Men = +9/+6/+2
11 Men = +10/+7/+3
12 Men = +11/+8/+4/+0

This chart has a few speedbumps in it. For example, the 3rd level fighting man is listed as “3 Men or Hero -1” but they wouldn’t quite be the same since the “Hero -1” would (I assume) get the extra attack. Likewise, a “Super Hero -1” would get a third attack, which is actually slightly better than just “7 Men.” My solution would be that if there are two options then one should take the better option of the two and put it into the chart.

Original Fighting Man (title, FC)
Veteran, Man +1
Warrior, 2 Men +1
Swordsman, 3 Men or Hero -1
Hero, Hero
Swashbuckler, Hero +1 or 5 Men
Myrmidon, Hero +1 or 6 Men
Champion, Super Hero -1
Super Hero, Super Hero
Lord, Super Hero +1
Lord, 10th level, Super Hero +1

Alternate Fighting Man (title, new FC)
Veteran, +1
Warrior, +2
Swordsman, +2/-1
Hero, +3/+0
Swashbuckler, +4/+1
Myrmidon, +5/+2
Champion, +6/+3/-1
Super Hero, +7/+4/+0
Lord, Super +8/+5/+1
Lord, 10th level, +9/+6/+2

For monsters there would be a similar progression:
Monsters FC would be based on HD.
<1 HD = +0
1 HD = +1
2 HD = +2
3 HD = +3/+0
4 HD = +4/+1
5 HD = +5/+2
6 HD = +6/+3
7 HD = +7/+4/+0
8 HD = +8/+5/+1
9 HD = +9/+6/+2
10 HD = +10/+7/+3
11 HD = +11/+8/+4/+0
12 HD = +12/+9/+5/+1

So … what do you think?

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Marv / Finarvyn
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Finarvyn
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Re: Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Reply #1 on Mar 25, 2012, 10:21am »

If anyone is interested, I worked out the class charts for OD&D using my alternate FC system. Should be attached to this post.

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aldarron
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Re: Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Reply #2 on Mar 25, 2012, 11:00am »

I'm a little sleepy Marv, but lemme se if I follow you. Basically you apply the # of attacks by FC to all creatures, not just 1 HD. Then instead of counting them as extra attacks you are counting them as an attack bonus to a single attack roll. Then you grant 1 extra attack roll and bonus for heroes, and two extra attack rolls and bonus to superheroes.

Is that correct?

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Finarvyn
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Re: Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Reply #3 on Mar 26, 2012, 7:04am »

That's it, only the number of attacks is fewer than the HD of the attacker.

In other words, a Super Hero in Chainmail gets 8 standard attacks against >1 HD monsters, 1 attack against everyone else, or 1 attack on the supernatural table.

The Super Hero using the Alternate Combat System gets similar attacks to the above example only using the 7-9 column instead of 1-3, effectively giving those attacks at +5.

In my new system the Super Hero gets 3 attacks against everyone, with +7/+4/+0 bonus.

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Stormcrow
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Re: Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Reply #4 on Mar 26, 2012, 8:56am »

My only thought here is that you lose the idea of "fantastic combat," which seems to me one of the points of rising in level. There is no longer a qualitative difference between fighting men and fighting monsters.

If you really want to see high-level fighters get multiple attacks, throw swarms of 1 HD monsters against them.

I don't think I'd go to all the trouble of a new chart just to roll more dice...

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Finarvyn
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Re: Alternate Fighting Capability idea
« Reply #5 on Mar 26, 2012, 4:44pm »

Mar 26, 2012, 8:56am, Stormcrow wrote:

If you really want to see high-level fighters get multiple attacks, throw swarms of 1 HD monsters against them.

A great point. Actually, this idea came from actual play where my group slaughtered a bunch of orcs and then got wiped out by an ogre.

Seemed like quite a jump to move from 4 attacks per round (they were 4th level at the time) to only one. Suddenly that ogre really blew up the power curve, which is what got me thinking about a way to smooth it out a little.

Plus, my players like to roll dice.

Of course, in my new system the ogre would get to attack twice as well.

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