Original D&D Discussion
« Fireball question »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
May 18, 2013, 5:58pm

[Home] [New Topics] [Help] [Search] [Login] [Register]



Original D&D Discussion :: Dungeons & Dragons (1971-1978) :: Men & Magic (1974) :: Fireball question
Page 1 of 2 » Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread] [Share Topic] [Print]
AuthorTopic: Fireball question (Read 969 times)
Finarvyn
Administrator
*****
Dungeon Master
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,673
Location: Near Chicago
Karma: 178
Fireball question
« Thread Started on Sept 24, 2008, 2:06pm »
I didn't want to derail the "spell questions" thread, so I thought I'd start a new one with my question.

Sept 24, 2008, 12:54pm, coffee wrote:
Gary often mentioned the size of the fireball and the tendency of it to fill spaces (33,000 cubic feet...).

I'm kind of courious: does everyone assume generic fireballs or do you allow your magic-users to customize at all?

My wife asked me about this because as a magic-user she often doesn't have many offensive spell options, but the fireball is sometimes overkill in that it expands to fill the space. She wanted to cast a fireball over a smaller area so as to not crisp the whole party, but the rules seemed to indicate she couldn't do that. She argued that in the "real world" a magic-user might have a good feel for the strength of the spell and be able to cast it smaller than the standard size.

I tend to be flexible in this kind of thing, and I wondered if anyone else did as well.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003)
I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox
Builder of the TrollBridge
Master of Mutants; MA since 1976
OD&D Player since 1975

"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
- Dave Arneson
redpriest
Level 4 Theurgist
**
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 121
Karma: 3
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #1 on Sept 24, 2008, 2:14pm »
I think the spell is too powerful if the m-u can control the area of affect. If D&D magic is in the Key of Vance, then there should be a right tool for the right job, and fireball (or any other spell) shouldn't be the right tool for every combat, or perceived combat, encounter.
« Last Edit: Sept 24, 2008, 2:14pm by redpriest »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Swords & Wizardry
coffee
Level 10 Necromancer
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Education is fun!


[homepage]

Joined: Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,503
Karma: 57
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #2 on Sept 24, 2008, 2:31pm »
I think the Magic-User should be entirely free to use the spell research rules to create variant fireballs, once the base spell is known. I don't think it should be a freebie.

The size and shape of a fireball has become iconic. But I'm also a fan of all the variant fireballs of Teflon Billy in Knights of the Dinner Table.

Anyway, that's my 2 coppers.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dieter the Deathless, anger-fueled fighting machine.
jrients
Level 6 Magician
***
member is offline

[avatar]


[homepage]

Joined: Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 410
Location: Urbana, IL
Karma: 26
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #3 on Sept 24, 2008, 5:21pm »
I always have fireballs expand to maximum volume. It's too much fun not to.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Jeff Rients
JM
Level 1 Medium
*
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Sept 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 10
Location: Sebring, Fl - with aspirations to get back to Ohio
Karma: 2
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #4 on Sept 25, 2008, 12:29pm »
I agree with coffee. Why not suggest her to do some custom spellcrafting? It's very much in the spirit of the game and completely circumvents the reinterpretation of the original spell.

Hm ... Make enough specialized variants and you'd have enough for a whole new subclass of MU, the Pyrotechnist (?) ... Has a nice ring to it ...

:D

JM.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Call of the Dungeon

JM's Art - Digital and Traditional
coffee
Level 10 Necromancer
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Education is fun!


[homepage]

Joined: Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,503
Karma: 57
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #5 on Sept 25, 2008, 12:49pm »

Sept 25, 2008, 12:29pm, JM wrote:
Hm ... Make enough specialized variants and you'd have enough for a whole new subclass of MU, the Pyrotechnist (?) ... Has a nice ring to it ...


I played a Fire Mage in 3e. Everything was fine -- until the DM's brother ran us through an adventure in a volcano, where everything had fire resistance...
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dieter the Deathless, anger-fueled fighting machine.
JM
Level 1 Medium
*
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Sept 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 10
Location: Sebring, Fl - with aspirations to get back to Ohio
Karma: 2
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #6 on Sept 26, 2008, 6:41am »
That almost sounds like he was picking on you, coffee; or he might have just been a prick ... :)

I hope your 'fire mage', or more properly Pyrotechnist, ( ;) ) made it through, just to spite the guy.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Call of the Dungeon

JM's Art - Digital and Traditional
coffee
Level 10 Necromancer
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Education is fun!


[homepage]

Joined: Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,503
Karma: 57
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #7 on Sept 26, 2008, 10:16am »
Oh, I survived. I just felt pretty bloody useless at the time.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dieter the Deathless, anger-fueled fighting machine.
blackbarn
Level 7 Enchanter
****
member is offline





Joined: Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 537
Karma: 30
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #8 on Sept 27, 2008, 9:11am »
Since pyrotechnics is actually a science, I humbly suggest using Pyromancer instead. :)
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
JM
Level 1 Medium
*
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Sept 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 10
Location: Sebring, Fl - with aspirations to get back to Ohio
Karma: 2
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #9 on Sept 27, 2008, 12:18pm »
Hm ... that DOES sound better!
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Call of the Dungeon

JM's Art - Digital and Traditional
darneson
Level 3 Conjurer
**
member is offline

[avatar]

Co-Creator of OD&D



Joined: May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 56
Karma: 26
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #10 on Sept 30, 2008, 8:56pm »
Into each existence a little lava must fall.

Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dave Arneson
"The Dark Lord of Gaming"
Co-Creator of OD&D (1974)
Creator of Blackmoor
Personal Page
Blackmoor MMRPG
longcoat000
Level 2 Seer
*
member is offline





Joined: Aug 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Karma: 1
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #11 on Oct 7, 2008, 12:25pm »
From the spell description, the MU nominates a point in three dimensional space which explodes in warm-to-firey-hot-napalm-death. There's nothing in there to suggest that the base spell behaves any differently than a regular explosion, so I don't think that the base range, size, or damage can be played with.

That said, I would allow the MU to change a cosmetic detail like color. As long as it doesn't affect the base type (fire) or effect of the spell, they can tweak it to their heart's content.

Since it is an explosion, I also wouldn't object to being able to create variants which allowed a "shaped charge" effect, since it is an explosion. Melkor's Magnificent Claymore comes to mind...
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Random
Level 7 Enchanter
****
member is offline

[avatar]



Joined: Jun 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 537
Karma: 14
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #12 on Oct 20, 2008, 2:45pm »
Okay, what's up with the 1 turn duration listed in Men & Magic for Fire Ball?
I figured it was one of those instantaneous type effects.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
coffee
Level 10 Necromancer
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Education is fun!


[homepage]

Joined: Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,503
Karma: 57
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #13 on Oct 20, 2008, 3:31pm »

Oct 20, 2008, 2:45pm, Random wrote:
Okay, what's up with the 1 turn duration listed in Men & Magic for Fire Ball?
I figured it was one of those instantaneous type effects.


Good question!

It could be any one of these things:

a) it only lasts a turn; it's not a permanent effect. (Turn here being melee turn; a/k/a round.

b) it's the casting time; at the end of the mage's turn, it goes off.

c) it burns for the entire turn (and again, I would assume melee turn or "round".)

d) it doesn't go off immediately; you can cast the spell but wait for up to a turn before you throw the fireball.


The really fun part is that each individual DM gets to decide which of these (or something else entirely!) to use in his or her own game.

Sorry I can't be more clear or specific, but that's a part of the ambiguity of the rules.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dieter the Deathless, anger-fueled fighting machine.
jcstephens
Level 3 Conjurer
**
member is offline





Joined: May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 97
Location: North Central Florida
Karma: 6
Re: Fireball question
« Reply #14 on Oct 20, 2008, 6:47pm »
How about this:

Remember in The Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch says, "How about some fire, scarecrow"? She tosses a small ball of fire which hits the ground and burns.

Maybe Fireballs could be like that, instead of an instantaneous flash they make a pool of flame which burns for a turn. Good for an attack spell, but also useful as a magical barrier to block pursuit.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Any fool of a DM can kill his players, it's as easy as "Rocks fall, everybody dies". The Art lies in giving them the opportunity to kill themselves, in as entertaining a manner as possible.
Page 1 of 2 » Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread] [Share Topic] [Print]

Click Here To Make This Board Ad-Free


This Board Hosted For FREE By ProBoards
Get Your Own Free Message Boards & Free Forums!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Notice | FTC Disclosure | Report Abuse | Mobile