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 Author | Topic: Wilderlands Demographics (Read 815 times) |
robertsconley
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« Thread Started on Aug 17, 2008, 6:31pm » | |
Jeff Rients posted about an aspect of the Wilderlands mapping system.
http://jrients.blogspot.com/2008/08/i-missed-this-before.html
This is part of my response I thought would be of general interest to the board.
I was doing some work on Woe which included the 5 mile area map. I wanted to see how much farming it would take to support Woe and figure I would share the data with the rest of you.
This info is taken from Triumphant Grand Tactical and Demographics found in Wilderlands of High Fantasy (old) and the Ready Ref Sheets
some definitions
1 able bodied men = 4 to 5 people or 1 household.
1 sq mile will feed 320 able bodied men
1 sq mile needs 30 able bodied men to utilize at 100%
1 5 mile hex has 13,856 acres
1 5 mile hex has 21.65 sq miles
1 5 mile hex has 625 .2 mile hexes
1 .2 mile hex has 22.17 acres
1 .2 mile hex has .035 sq miles
1 5 mile hex, with 100% utilization, can feed up to 6928 people.
1 5 mile hex will require 650 able bodied men to utilize at 100%
Note the book give 6400. This looks like a math error unless they are making note you are never going really get 100% utilization. If you want to do this then the max utilization is 80%.
1 .2 mile hex will feed 11.085 able bodied men
1 .2 mile hex will require 1.039 able bodied men
1 historical manor has 1500 acres
(includes a hamlet or village)
1 historical manor will 70 able bodied men for labor
1 historical manor will feed 750 able bodied men.
Finally
640 acres to feed 1 able bodied nomad/hunter gatherer.
1 5 mile hex will feed 20 able bodied nomads (rounded it)
30 .2 mile hexes will feed 1 able bodied nomad.
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darebear
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« Reply #1 on Apr 23, 2012, 2:41pm » | |
Rob. Interesting read. I have a question though: where do you assume that 1 able bodied man is equal to 4-5 people (household)? Page 30 of the book does not indicate that at all. Is speaks of "members" and "population" but not able bodied men. In any event the 80K people of the CSIO would need between 10-13 hexes for realistic farming needs (one would be lucky to get 50% utilization in hex (due to hills, streams, ponds, marsh, and other unusable land which would be in every 5 mile hex).
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keith418
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« Reply #2 on Apr 24, 2012, 3:38pm » | |
There is a really great article on creating your own campaign that appears in issues "L" and "M" of the JG newsletters. I don't know if it's every been reprinted anywhere, but it has a lot of demographic info like this.
My campaign, heavily influenced by the original JG materials, is set on the OS map. I am always studying the town hexes and thinking about how many people they could really support. At a certain point, the exploding population will necessitate a) killing off all the monsters and b) expansion to the point in which it's really not the "wilderness" any longer. How do you prevent this from happening?
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darebear
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« Reply #3 on Apr 24, 2012, 4:32pm » | |
I have always used war, plague, migrations of hostile humanoids, famine, barbarian raids and the occasional meteor strike to reduce population. However, any substantial growth would take decades so the point is moot in most campaigns I think. The only thing I keep track of are the large monsters, like dragons. There are only so many lairs to find. Then one runs out and must move on to other hunting grounds.
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keith418
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« Reply #4 on Apr 24, 2012, 4:41pm » | |
“The wilderlands of the City States are a dangerous place. Each community tends to become introverted to a large degree simply because he danger of wandering monsters is so great that to interact with a neighboring community and attempt to form political, social or economic bonds with it would be extremely risky. The superstitious peasants only know that their neighbor went to tend his fields and didn’t come back or that a pack of Giant Weasels rampaged through their village only a week ago, or a great Red Dragon is known to make his lair somewhere nearby. Thus, even during a famine and resultant high grain prices, merchants hesitate to convoy wagons of grain because of the great risk involved in getting it there – - even though this ideal market is only ten or fifteen miles away.”
- from Witches Court Marshes (Brian Hinnen)
I'm basically applying this logic to my own campaign in the Outdoor Survival map.
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robertsconley
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« Reply #5 on May 1, 2012, 12:03pm » | |
Apr 23, 2012, 2:41pm, darebear wrote:Rob. Interesting read. I have a question though: where do you assume that 1 able bodied man is equal to 4-5 people (household)?
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Judges Guild Ready Ref Sheets, Trade Guide, page 39. I believe this also found in the back section of the original Wilderlands of High Fantasy.
Quote:| Since, all village populations are stated in Able-Bodied Men, the actual market potential is roughly four times greater. |
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Since I use a lot of Harn material where a household is equal five individuals I modified Able-Bodied Men to mean five individuals of a family household.
So hence four to five.
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robertsconley
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« Reply #6 on May 1, 2012, 12:16pm » | |
Apr 23, 2012, 2:41pm, darebear wrote:R In any event the 80K people of the CSIO would need between 10-13 hexes for realistic farming needs (one would be lucky to get 50% utilization in hex (due to hills, streams, ponds, marsh, and other unusable land which would be in every 5 mile hex).
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Medieval France approached densities of 100 people per square miles. Many areas in Northern France were 100% utilized.
Now 100% utilized doesn't mean it was all under the plow. Forest management and livestock grazing was very important and land was allocated for these purposes. All of it has to be combined to consider how many people the land can support. I feel my 20% waste figure is one the low side.
Of course you will have to judge it one a hex by hex basis but on the whole I feel comfortable in asserting that a clear hex on the Wilderlands map can get 80% utilization easily after all other factors being accounted for.
I recommend Medieval Demographics made easy by S. John Ross
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm
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jmccann
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« Reply #7 on May 1, 2012, 10:30pm » | |
Thanks to the OP and thanks for the thread necromancy. This is very timely for me as I am working out the demographics of my campaign.
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darebear
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« Reply #8 on May 2, 2012, 3:05pm » | |
Thanks for the reply Rob. For your version of the wilderlands did you change the population sizes of the settlements? 12.5 miles a hex is quite large. I am hesitant to change the scale due to the population figures not matching up to the scale of the map. What are your thoughts on changing the scale and population sizes?
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robertsconley
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Karma: 40 | | Re: Wilderlands Demographics
« Reply #9 on May 3, 2012, 10:21pm » | |
May 2, 2012, 3:05pm, darebear wrote:| Thanks for the reply Rob. For your version of the wilderlands did you change the population sizes of the settlements? 12.5 miles a hex is quite large. I am hesitant to change the scale due to the population figures not matching up to the scale of the map. What are your thoughts on changing the scale and population sizes? |
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For the original Wilderlands won't matter much. For the boxed set it may cause issues with some of the descriptions. I know on the maps I did (City-State, Barbarian Altanis, and Northern half of Isle of the Blest) it would make a difference for many of my descriptions.
As for what I did, I redrew the maps. The original settlements became towns and castles and I populated the countryside with additional settlements and keeps. Even after that there there is a ton of wilderness.
![[image]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mFjy4EWzmtg/TCFr8p9Ki6I/AAAAAAAAA8M/vJo5Xp7zZqQ/s1600/Duchy+of+Dearthmead.jpg "[image]")
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robertsconley
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Karma: 40 | | Re: Wilderlands Demographics
« Reply #10 on May 3, 2012, 10:25pm » | |
This is what one of those 12.5 miles hexes look like zoom in. Each small hex is 1 league or 2.5 mile and takes an hour to walk on level ground.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mFjy4EWzmtg/S2....+Gormmah+Sm.jpg
Each of the diamond represents a single manor/village/hamlet/estate of about 1,500 to 3,000 acres and 10 to 50 able bodied men.
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