Original D&D Discussion - Holmes Gray Book

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Original D&D Discussion :: Dungeons & Dragons (1971-1978) :: Holmes Basic D&D (1978) :: Holmes Gray Book

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Topic: Holmes Gray Book (Read 3,111 times)

greyharp
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #15 on Apr 14, 2010, 4:23pm »

Apr 14, 2010, 9:54am, aldarron wrote:

The Grey book...The first thing you should know is not to be fooled by the cover.

The original cover is certainly misleading.

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thegreyelf
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #16 on Apr 14, 2010, 9:11pm »

Apr 14, 2010, 9:54am, aldarron wrote:

Nice cover Jason!

Thanks! When someone did the art mockup I was very taken with the B/X cover in the crystal ball. Had to use it for something. This seemed appropriate. So I slapped the logo and text on it, and went to town.

Here's the original, btw, before I "cover mocked" it:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6413/coverball.jpg

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The Grey bookl - I've downloaded this thing three times. Deleted twice. So I'm not overly taken with it but here's why; Its nice but kinda pointless. The first thing you should know is not to be fooled by the cover. This isn't Holmes D&D and never pretended to be. There is very very little Holmes content in it. Mostly it is a mix mash of OD&D, AD&D and Mentzer D&D. So the ruleset you end up with is not practically much different from 1e AD&D. Sure there are lots of little differences but in the end its basically the same as playing AD&D, or as the author says, AD&D lite. Don't get me wrong - its well put together and I really like the art, but I can't see ever personaly having a use for the thing because it would be more practical just to play AD&D. On the other hand if I was new to AD&D I might definetly prefer the layout and presentation of the Greybook.

I don't know about that. With the exception of SRD-isms like adventuring outfits in the equipment section, it reads to me just like if Holmes had gone on to produce his own Expert and possibly Companion set. I think it's an exceptionally slick version of D&D. Head and shoulders above a lot of the house rule documents out there. I'd play it in a second and I'm actually proud to have it on the shelf. I think it deserves more love than it gets.

Ages ago I downloaded it, printed it off and had it velo bound at Kinko's. I was fairly unimpressed with it at the time. Maybe it's because I did the professional PoD job with it, I don't know, but when I revisited it and read it cover to cover, I think it's great and I do think it's true to Holmes in most ways that count.

« Last Edit: Apr 14, 2010, 9:12pm by thegreyelf »

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deodanth
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #17 on Jun 29, 2010, 8:07am »

Apr 14, 2010, 9:11pm, thegreyelf wrote:

With the exception of SRD-isms like adventuring outfits in the equipment section

You are putting this very kindly, Greyelf. Other than weapons and armor, the entire equipment section was lifted straight from 3rd edition. What was the author thinking? I enjoy using this equipment in 3e, but not in original D&D. The presence of twenty-first century material in Holmes is nothing short of egregious. For me, it spoils the rest of the document.

You could just ignore it and re-insert the old table, I suppose... :-/

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Finarvyn
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #18 on Jun 29, 2010, 8:16am »

Y'all know that this thread doesn't actually contain a link to the "Holmes Gray Book"? I added one to the initial post so others could find it.

« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2010, 8:20am by Finarvyn »

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thegreyelf
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #19 on Jun 29, 2010, 11:10am »

I don't find 21st century material in there egregious at all. It's convenient, and really, what's the major differences? Hell, the 3.x equipment section is more detailed and expansive than the original Holmes one, and I've never been opposed to those kinds of options--especially since Holmes and Basic removed the weapon vs. armor type factors that make non-variable weapon damage worthwhile. In OD&D and Holmes, unless you use Chainmail Combat or the Greyhawk weapon vs. armor type modifiers, there is no reason whatsoever not to just pick up a heavy club off the ground instead of spending money on weapons.

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hogscape
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #20 on Jul 6, 2010, 9:28am »

It doesn't seem to be available at the indicated link anymore - I'm guessing the Copyright police eliminated it? If there's a new link, could someone post? Or maybe email a copy to me at hogscape@gmail.com?

Many thanks

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cadriel
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #21 on Jul 7, 2010, 12:25pm »

Someone happened to post this to my blog. I am really not a fan at all - if I wanted to play "AD&D Lite" I would use Labyrinth Lord and Advanced Edition Characters. The prose, particularly, grated on me to the point where I couldn't get through the section on character classes, and its choice of Holmes as a material basis seems pointless when it tacks on absolutely everything from the supplements.

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #22 on Jul 10, 2010, 6:42am »

Jul 6, 2010, 9:28am, hogscape wrote:

here you go !

http://www.mediafire.com/?5nzhz1ztiyx

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