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May 22, 2013, 12:27pm

Original D&D Discussion :: Dungeons & Dragons (1971-1978) :: Holmes Basic D&D (1978) :: Holmes Gray Book

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Topic: Holmes Gray Book (Read 3,110 times)

gazeboslayer
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Holmes Gray Book
« Thread Started on Jul 31, 2009, 11:21am »

Couldn't find much on this with a search, anyone running it?
Thoughts?

ADMIN EDIT: Added a link
http://blog.retroroleplaying.com/2009/09/grey-book-od-compiled.html

« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2010, 8:26am by Finarvyn »

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Julian Grimm
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #1 on Jul 31, 2009, 11:46am »

I had it for a bit but deleted it. The book is more AD&D light than anything. Not something I wanted in something like a Holmes game.

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gazeboslayer
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #2 on Jul 31, 2009, 12:03pm »

I guess I am not seeing that. It just looks like regular holmes with extra classes to me. Theres no weapon proficiencies or anything else ad&d like that I can tell...

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #3 on Jul 31, 2009, 2:24pm »

It is just my POV which amounts to squat in the scheme of things. LOL

I do like the greybook but prefer OD&D/S&W more.

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #4 on Jul 31, 2009, 4:03pm »

It's useful to read what the author thought of his own project. Here's a quote from The Gray Book's introduction:

Quote:

I started out by trying to compile all the rules presented in the Dungeons & Dragons® rules and supplements into one cohesive whole. Based on Bruce Mohler’s prior work, I aimed to present this book as if it were the book that Eric Holmes had written all along, before severe editing pared down the rules to the 48 pages that exist today. The largest difference between Bruce’s work, this work, and the original rules is the absence of both the rather poor Greg Bell art, and references/dependencies to Chainmail®. A major goal was to complete what Bruce had started, but as work progressed, the book was steadily becoming less a “Dungeons & Dragons compilation” and more of an “Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Light”.

The original material has been edited for readability and reorganized into a cohesive whole. However, this work is more of a cosmopolitan whole than the original rules, in that things from virtually every edition of the Dungeons & Dragons rules make an appearance here.

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gazeboslayer
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #5 on Jul 31, 2009, 4:27pm »

I've already printed it out and read it.

The classes are the only thing I really see from AD&D though. Anyone actually played this set vs. regular Holmes? I have both, I just want to use graybook so my players can get it free.

I know we could also use S&W + Skathros companion to get the extra classes...

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deodanth
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #6 on Dec 10, 2009, 7:28pm »

I just downloaded the Gray Book and gave it a once-over. It looks pretty good at first glance, faithful to what I think Holmes attempted to do. The classes and level progression are not from AD&D, they appear to come from the LBB and supplements.

Then I got to the Equipment section... and was in for a shock. Weapon and armor prices are a mix of OD&D and 1e AD&D with little consistency. Worse still, all the adventuring gear, clothing, mounts, tools, and even alchemical items come straight from D&D Third Edition! Ouch. I don't care how sketchy the OD&D/Homes equipment list was... he could have left it at that and moved on. I've admitted I'm a 3e fan, but let's keep it separate. Sorry, explorer's outfits and sunrods do NOT exist in OD&D!

« Last Edit: Dec 10, 2009, 7:32pm by deodanth »

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vladtolenkov
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #7 on Feb 8, 2010, 12:37am »

I have to say I'm quite taken with the Gray Book. Its basically the full implementation of OD&D with the Holmes initiative system as far I can see. I printed the whole thing out and got it coil bound with a plastic cover at FedEx.

I'd say that it might be my go to version of old school D&D. Its feels like its the perfect middle space between LBBs and AD&D (and I can easily use material from either).

Deodanth's right about the equipment though. Using the Holmes or LBBs equipment list would have been better.

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vladtolenkov
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #8 on Feb 8, 2010, 12:42am »

However, I've never been particularly happy with the Holmes initiative system, so I'll likely institute the traditional Basic D&D d6 as in Moldvay.

That's my only real gripe with the Gray Book although some of the sections could be rewritten to be clearer.

« Last Edit: Feb 8, 2010, 12:45am by vladtolenkov »

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thegreyelf
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #9 on Mar 6, 2010, 11:03pm »

I dig the Grey Book. In fact, I was so convinced that it deserves a place on the shelf I used a PoD service to have a hardcover version made for myself, complete with mock TSR cover.

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #10 on Apr 9, 2010, 1:17am »

Mar 6, 2010, 11:03pm, thegreyelf wrote:

I dig the Grey Book. In fact, I was so convinced that it deserves a place on the shelf I used a PoD service to have a hardcover version made for myself, complete with mock TSR cover.

Sounds awesome!

Mind if I ask how much that cost you? And what did you do for the cover exactly? Scan the box cover and use that?

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thegreyelf
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #11 on Apr 9, 2010, 8:21am »

No, I put one together myself in Paint Shop Pro, using a piece of artwork someone mocked up on Dragonsfoot And it cost me about $20, total.

Here's a lo-res version of the cover:

[image]

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #12 on Apr 9, 2010, 12:13pm »

Apr 9, 2010, 8:21am, thegreyelf wrote:

No, I put one together myself in Paint Shop Pro, using a piece of artwork someone mocked up on Dragonsfoot And it cost me about $20, total.

Here's a lo-res version of the cover:

[image]

Wow! That's fantastic! I want!

And for $20? Where did you get it printed?

d**n dude, I'm turning green over here!

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thegreyelf
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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #13 on Apr 9, 2010, 2:44pm »

I don't want to drop too much info as it's not my place to tell other people (It's Steven's baby). Suffice it to say there are PoD services out there that you can use.

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Re: Holmes Gray Book
« Reply #14 on Apr 14, 2010, 9:54am »

Nice cover Jason!

The Grey bookl - I've downloaded this thing three times. Deleted twice. So I'm not overly taken with it but here's why; Its nice but kinda pointless. The first thing you should know is not to be fooled by the cover. This isn't Holmes D&D and never pretended to be. There is very very little Holmes content in it. Mostly it is a mix mash of OD&D, AD&D and Mentzer D&D. So the ruleset you end up with is not practically much different from 1e AD&D. Sure there are lots of little differences but in the end its basically the same as playing AD&D, or as the author says, AD&D lite. Don't get me wrong - its well put together and I really like the art, but I can't see ever personaly having a use for the thing because it would be more practical just to play AD&D. On the other hand if I was new to AD&D I might definetly prefer the layout and presentation of the Greybook.

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