Holmes Supplement I « Thread Started on Jul 18, 2009, 8:43pm »
Hiya Folks!, I was reviewing some notes I have been working on to make a supplement for the Holmes Basic version which would consist of the following.
- Character Sheet - Expanded Levels up to 17th for most classes - Ability Score Tables, complete info - Cleric VS Undead Table - Weapon Damage - Spell List - Spells - from white box set adapted to holmes basic
If there is anything else you guys would want in this or would like to contribute let me know. I'm going to post it PDF format. More will follow using early dragon and white dwarf zines materials.
*note* the PDFs have all the same fonts and look of the original 1978 material.
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #1 on Jul 18, 2009, 10:20pm »
My only desire would be that you keep it "Holmes" and don't turn it into AD&D-lite, or something similar.
There are at least 3 Holmes supplements floating around:
There's the very popular 4-page Meepo's Holmes Companion, which like the original, is based on the LBB's and takes characters up to level 9.
R.C. "Thorkhammer" Pinnell's 12-page Holmes Blue Book Companion, going up to level 14 and a little bit down the AD&D road by adding the barbarian, ranger and paladin.
And then there's Steven J. Ege's massive 146-page The Gray Book, with mostly unlimited level limits and a very AD&Dish feel, and which can be downloaded here, thanks to this thread here.
So you've got some competition ahead of you delve, but I'm looking forward to seeing what you produce.
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 4,674 Location: Near Chicago Karma: 178
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #2 on Jul 18, 2009, 11:35pm »
Greyharp is spot on here. I'd also suggest taking a look at the three versions that others have done before you, and ask yourself what will make your version different and/or better than theirs. (My preference has always been Meepo's, but his was the first I saw.)
Either way, once you see the competition and build your own supplement I hope you'll share with us. What you'll find is that folks here always like to tinker with house rules sets and some will probably like yours better than the other three.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #3 on Jul 19, 2009, 8:35am »
Thanks guys, the one main thing I want to do is just keep it small, simple and useful. The only longest part is the spells. I want to keep it true to holmes as possible with the look and material that will blend well with the game.
Well to be completely honest Delve, you've missed my one and only "want", which was to remain true and loyal to the Holmes rules. I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "supplement", thinking you were going to simply expand upon the base that is Holmes. Instead you are making major changes in your supplement, such as:
- Ability Scores, your treatment of ability scores is very un-Holmes, which was based on 0e, rather than the later Moldvay model as you seem to have done.
- Cleric Hit Dice & Spells and Thief Hit Dice, you've upped the Cleric from d6 to d8 and the Thief from d4 to d6. And of course then there's the business of the Cleric getting a spell at level 1. While I understand the rationale behind this, it makes it very un-Holmes.
- Thief's Abilities, you have made some major changes here, leaving out Open Lock, increasing some abilites quite dramatically but decreasing others too. In the case of Hear Noise, the Thief now has a far less chance of hearing noise than his fellow humans - they at least get a 1 in 6 chance, whereas your poor Thief now only gets a 1 in 10 chance to hear something.
- Saving Throws, don't reflect the Holmes statement that Fighters (Dwarves, Halflings, Elves) increase at level 4, (which also suggests that Clerics, Thieves and Magic-users do so at higher levels). You've also increased some saving throws and decreased others, which seems unnecessary.
I have to admit that going by what you have produced so far Delve, this is not a supplement that I would ever use. A supplement adds to an existing document. This instead seems to be a complete re-working of the whole ruleset, coming across to me more as a bunch of house rules with a very thin layer of Holmes over the top, rather than a Holmes supplement with a small sprinkle of house rules.
Having said all that, I am still interested to see the end result.
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #5 on Jul 20, 2009, 6:32pm »
Thank you for helping me out, honestly I haven't gamed in a while and this is the system that appealed to me most. I sometimes overlook some info and its good to have some input. I'll make some changes and put some the new ones up soon. Also the magic spells I'm implementing are from the white box set, you think that would be useful?
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #6 on Jul 20, 2009, 8:10pm »
First and foremost Delve, you should do what feels right to you, make something that you want to play.
Of the three Holmes supplements I linked above, The Gray Book misses the point entirely, but is impressive in it's scope. I have to admit that I haven't sat down and examined Thorkhammer's to work out his sources, so it would be unfair to pass judgement. Meepo's, I feel, best capture's the "spirit" of Holmes. The original was an edit of the 3 original book + the Greyhawk supplement and Meepo went back to those books for his expansion. So in your case, yes, if you want to capture the spirit of Holmes, sourcing spells from the white box set would be best, but again, it depends on your motivation for the project. Are you doing this because you love Holmes and want to see more people play it and share the enjoyment, or do you want to produce a more viable (more than 3 levels) set of Holmes-like rules that best fits your idea of an ideal ruleset? And the answer to that should help you decide from where you want to draw your inspiration.
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #7 on Jul 20, 2009, 11:35pm »
Never rains but it pours, another Holmes supplement has been released today. Patrick Armstrong has put up a draft version of his Holmes Expansion here on his blog Ode to Black Dougal . It has 5 pages and takes humans up to level 9.
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #8 on Jul 21, 2009, 4:28am »
In all honesty I have to say the Holmes Set is my fav by far, its trimmed down and simple yet fast to get the game going. The only downfall was the lack of material for it, that's why I want to create a nice expansion for it and try to make it look exactly like it came from the book itself. I hunted down all the fonts and the information got a bit jumbled up. I think I'll just focus on the White Set as my resource for any update to it. So stay tuned for attempt 2.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #10 on Jul 27, 2009, 4:11pm »
OK here is the 2nd attempt, still in rough shape, needs a bit more organizing and a bit more material. I liked the missing art from my Holmes set so I used the same as Meepo did in his.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 2,503 Karma: 57
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #11 on Jul 27, 2009, 4:40pm »
Looks good, but I still have a couple of questions:
Why do Magic-Users stop getting more hit dice, while Fighters, Clerics and Thieves keep on getting more?
And I still don't get the "Order of Attack" on the Dexterity table. Sure you reference page 20, Who Gets the First Blow, but that flat out says that it goes in order of Dexterity. So I don't understand the modifiers on your table. Can you explain that for me? Is there an initiative roll you're using that I don't know about?
Other than that, it looks very nice. Clean, simple -- possibly the best Holmes expansion I've seen.
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #12 on Jul 27, 2009, 5:46pm »
Thank You very much! The M U hit dice & Order of attack are just old notes errors. I'm still in the middle of editing all my notes. It's still in rough shape, but I want it to look more organized and set out better for people to print out. The Magic Spells part is going to take the longest, I'm trying to change some the OD&D references to the books and trim down the awkward explanations.
Any suggestions on things to edit would be more than welcome.
I was thinking of making a supplement II that works more on dungeon design kits, some more classes and materials, from the early dragon mags, white dwarf & the Strategic review. Not everyone has access to these mag's and it would be nice to make a little booklet for fans to add into their games.
Any comments on making this all open source, I'll put it up as PDF and word Docs so people can edit and add, heck improve the material more it would be neat to see it evolve and get the community involved.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 273 Location: Fayetteville, GA Karma: 5
Re: Holmes Supplement I « Reply #14 on Jul 28, 2009, 5:27am »
I can only speak for myself here, so this is nothing more than opinion, but I'm much more in favor of the lower levels of about 9 or 10. One of the many reasons I love Meepo's Holmes Companion is the level cap of 9.
I wish I had more time to go over it in better detail, delve, but I'll say this. I thought it may be impossible for anyone to put together a more kick butt companion for Holmes than Meepo's, but you're gainin' fast.
In fact.... though I don't know what the legal issues may or may not be, it would be cool if the finished project could be put up at Lulu. How neat would it be to have a saddle-stitched companion to the Holmes book?
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Author
![[homepage]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
Logged
![[avatar]](http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/finarvyn/avatar.jpg "[avatar]"){kind=avatar}
![[avatar]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4qI6i7wKX1c/SdZoRveimpI/AAAAAAAAADI/N5Grto0YRg4/S220/Mage.JPG "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k58/machfront1/MeGlowFB2_TB.jpg "[avatar]")