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May 18, 2013, 10:07pm

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thedegenerateelite
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Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Thread Started on Apr 10, 2012, 4:34am »

I have done quite a bit of digging around on the forums lately but have not seen this question come up.

Anyone know the first occurance of the term Dungeonmaster in TSR literature? I know the lbbs pretty much stick to referee.

Maybe it is an article in Dragon?

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Azafuse
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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #1 on Apr 10, 2012, 6:44am »

IIRC the term was first used by Gygax in the Foreword of Supplement II: Blackmoor, as shown in this Grognardia's post.

The term appears twice in the Foreword, but referee is still used in any other part of the book.

« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2012, 6:44am by Azafuse »

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Finarvyn
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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #2 on May 17, 2012, 9:55am »

And at some point this morphed into "Game Master" as folks ran games not based on dungeons.

I like DM most of all, referee next.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 9:55am by Finarvyn »

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #3 on May 17, 2012, 10:48am »

You can call me the Judge. 8-)

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #4 on May 17, 2012, 11:15am »

May 17, 2012, 9:55am, Finarvyn wrote:

And at some point this morphed into "Game Master" as folks ran games not based on dungeons.

I like DM most of all, referee next.

I think it was more a matter of not copying D&D too closely... and "dungeonmaster" may have even been a trademark at one point, if I recall correctly.

First place I saw "Game Master" was in The Fantasy Trip, which even had a supplement called The Game Master's Codex. TFT was actually focused pretty solidly on dungeon-crawling, so the vocabulary change wasn't because of a shift in subject matter.

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paulg
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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #5 on May 17, 2012, 7:11pm »

and "dungeonmaster" may have even been a trademark at one point

"Dungeon Master" is still a registered trademark of WotC, and was owned by TSR. I prefer "referee" anyhow.

EDIT: The USPTO lists the trademark filling date and first use in commerce as 1992, which is later than I would have thought.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 7:18pm by paulg »

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #6 on May 27, 2012, 11:39pm »

Yeap, a trademark issue, but I don't mind since the term is sort of a weird one. I get that "master" used to have a more formal tone (as in, master of ceremonies) but today it is a bit adversarial or even worse connotations.

I find "referee" a bit awkward in its own right as well because it clearly differentiates the referee from the players. In sports, one side is an athlete and the other side needs new glasses. Everyone gets to hate the ref. In RPGs, I think it is important for everyone to be positioned to have their fun valued.

Hence, I prefer the generic term "GM." Not even Game Master, just "Gee-Em." Everyone knows what it means, none of the weird baggage.

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DungeonDevil
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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #7 on May 28, 2012, 1:02am »

I prefer Referee to Umpire -- a term which is heard often in wargaming circles in the UK. Each time I hear it I immediately think of baseball, which is the only place it is commonly heard in the States, IIRC. Cracks me up every time. That and "nugget" for a d20. ROTFLMAO.
I think I'm going to register the term "Omniscient and Omnipotent Character-Killer" (OOCK).

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #8 on May 29, 2012, 7:02pm »

To me "Dungeon Master" sounds like a...

[image]

So yeah...

And when I think of "Game Master", I think of...

[image]

That, and it just sounds generic. :-/

I do like "Ref" (as opposed to "Referee" - who are well renowned for being half-blind, cockeyed and of poor judgment), or "Evil Wizard Player" (a holdover term from years of playing HeroQuest).

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #9 on May 29, 2012, 8:55pm »

A guy I know from back in the day wasn't responding to one of his players, until the guy called out: "Hey, Doom Master!" He looked up and said, "That one I like..."

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #10 on May 30, 2012, 1:17pm »

I like GM= Game Moderator

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Cameron DuBeers
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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #11 on May 30, 2012, 2:08pm »

Referee has worked fine for me all these years and I see no reason to change. Or, for that matter, insist on that term. I'll answer to anything (DM, GM, referee, et al.) obviously directed at me as the individual holding that position.

I do insist on respect and I'll not budge on that point. I won't put that amount of work into a campaign to be insulted. Friendly banter is okay, barracks room lawyers are told to leave and not return.

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #12 on May 30, 2012, 8:08pm »

May 30, 2012, 2:08pm, Cameron DuBeers wrote:

I do insist on respect and I'll not budge on that point. I won't put that amount of work into a campaign to be insulted. Friendly banter is okay, barracks room lawyers are told to leave and not return.

Hear, hear!

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Re: Origin of the term Dungeonmaster
« Reply #13 on Jun 11, 2012, 4:51pm »

I like the term Game Master myself. Then again I prefer Wilderness Exploration/City Adventures/Political Intrigue/War Machine type play to Dungeon Crawls.

-Havard

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