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Re: The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #15 on Mar 14, 2012, 8:16pm »
Just this last weekend I attended Cold Wars the Historic Miniature Wargame convention in Lancaster, PA. Seemed to me that there was a pretty good turn-out all things considered.
Keep in mind that AH was bought out by TSR, who was bought out by WotC. WotC has an Avalon Hill section of their boards, but it doesn't get much action. (At least, it hadn't last time I checked.)
This is not quite right. SPI was bought by TSR, who pissed off all SPI's customers and released a few crappy games before basically shutting down the whole thing. Costikyan's article describes this well.
A company called Decision Games got the rights to a few of the games and still publishes Strategy and Tactics.
AH was bought by WOTC which is now owned by Hasbro. They similarly shut down nearly all of the real AH games. Multiman Publishing licenses the rights to a number of the AH games, and a few others have been reissued by L2 designs, GMT and others.
Just this last weekend I attended Cold Wars the Historic Miniature Wargame convention in Lancaster, PA. Seemed to me that there was a pretty good turn-out all things considered.
There are lots of conventions all over the countries well attended by wargamers. Every year there are a couple of big conventions with a lot of board wargames and a handfull of minis wargames, and a couple of minis-focused ones around western Washington.
I'd like to go to Cold Wars some time. The problem is my in-laws are in Maryland, so it would be possible, but we always go either in the summer or for Christmas.
Re: The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #18 on Mar 18, 2012, 7:50am »
>>As noted earlier, historical boardgames are fading. The decline started around 1980 and the 1982 fall of SPI was the result of this trend, not its cause. << --from the article
Note that he says historical *boardgames* are fading...historical miniatures finished fading around 1980 and have achieved a pretty healthy equilibrium since then. Even the boardgames may be in something like an equilibrium state by now, as that article looks to have been written in '99 or thereabouts.
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #19 on Mar 18, 2012, 8:52am »
Historical boardgames like AH used to make may be fading but boardgames in general seem to be making a resurgance, at least around me. Our local game store stocks many more board games than they do RPGs and seem to have quite a few players mong the high school age crowd. I teach HS and have quite a few students who play Battlestar Galactica and similar games on a regular basis.
The difference (I think) is that modern boardgames are all about the bells-and-whistles. Bright color mapboards, lots of colored plastic pieces to move around, full-color cards, and so on instead of little cardboard counters. A lot more effort is going into the production side of things.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #20 on Mar 18, 2012, 10:36am via the ProBoards Mobile App »
Yes and no. I think of the popular Eurogames now, like Settlers of Catan. I do agree there are lovely production values, but the number of pieces is relatively small compared to many an Avalon Hill board game (curse you all for reminding me to look at eBay for these!).
Instead they tend to focus on interesting game mechanics that involve social interaction - not unlike the classic game, Diplomacy.
Those articles broke my heart. The wargamers loved their hobby every bit as much as we do D&D, and apparently it is totally gone. I wonder if they have a website where the hardcore wargamers still get together and talk about it and hopefully still play it?
I think the hobby is less gone than you seem to think.
That's good. A couple of years ago, when I was running a pbp Call of Cthulhu game, I was creating a map for the players on the train. A guy in suit and tie sat next to me, could tell I was gaming, and started talking about how he used to wargame so much.
Another tidbit to share: For me, the tragedy of the Avalon Hill fall is not for the wargames, I love their strategy games. Dune, Britannia, Kremlin, Civilization, Wizard's Quest, etc. I just sold some of my AH wargames on eBay (Luftwaffe, Arab-Israeli Wars, etc.). They're just never going to get played.
The difference (I think) is that modern boardgames are all about the bells-and-whistles. Bright color mapboards, lots of colored plastic pieces to move around, full-color cards, and so on instead of little cardboard counters. A lot more effort is going into the production side of things.
A few years ago, I played the re-issue of Cosmic Encounter. I bought my first copy through the mail when it was advertised in Starlog magazine in '77; my friends and I played the hell out of that game but admittedly, the production values were low. The new version has fancy plastic pieces and a plastic "attack cone" with fiddly little slots where the attackers and allies went. It was very pretty, but honestly - it added absolutely nothing to the game. For me, at least, it actually detracted from the game because it was so time-consuming to get all those pieces slotted in place. Give me my old cardboard cone and die-cut counters (biodegradable and ego-friendly - a plus these days); its faster, cleaner, and leaves more time for arguing about how this flare affects your three powers which are counteracting my three powers.
(That's why I stopped playing - my friends were up to dealing five flares at the start and choosing three powers. The games always degenerated into endless arguments. I think that Eon should have quadrupled the number of "Sanity" cards in the deck. ...I also avoided playing Railroad games with my old crowd. There's a joke about the reason they supply crayons with railroad games is that you can't trust a railroad gamer with anything sharper. )
...I also avoided playing Railroad games with my old crowd. There's a joke about the reason they supply crayons with railroad games is that you can't trust a railroad gamer with anything sharper. )
You played the wrong railroad games...
1830 and friends (collectively known as 18xx) are some of the finest games ever produced. They aren't the crayon games (Empire Builder variants, iirc).
...I also avoided playing Railroad games with my old crowd. There's a joke about the reason they supply crayons with railroad games is that you can't trust a railroad gamer with anything sharper. )
lol That's a good one but Empire Builder's aok by me. GG gave it a good review too, "a game for those who enjoy contests which are short on rule reading long on playing enjoyment... the best boardgame to come out in a long time." Besides, my 5-year old's favs are (modified) Dungeon!, Puppy-opoly, and Empire Builder (just drawing crazy tracks on the board, not actually playing). So just leave us to our crayons, ok! (Just Kidding )
Re: The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #28 on Apr 3, 2012, 8:07am »
I hadn't seen this article before, and always assumed Meier had simply licensed Civ from AH. Silly me.
My first game was D-Day, and I had and played a few of their other old chestnuts: Waterloo, Stalingrad, France 1940. Flat Top is a really good game.
I also liked some of the later offerings. New World was an interesting exploration/colonization game, and Blackbeard is a greatly enjoyable game. I think Sid Meier must have liked that one too
Re: The Fall of Avalon Hill « Reply #29 on Apr 3, 2012, 11:21pm »
Like most articles written by old SPiers, this is terribly outdated.
Wargames are going strong and experiencing a fairly large resurgence. And we are talking about large, complex, and detailed wargames, not boardgames with war.
Look at the publishers sites:
http://www.gmtgames.com/ - Produce large numbers of games on very specific conflicts and general systems for ancient and Napoleonic periods.
http://www.columbiagames.com/ - Produce Wooden Block wargames that incorporate fog of war elements to complicate planning - Also produce the Harn RPG books.
http://victorypointgames.com/ - Produce a variety of historical and sci/fi titles, many solo games, and losts of reprints of old SPI stuff.
http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ - Produce Advance Squad Leader and lots of accessories for it, in addition to other games, like Lincoln's War.
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