Topic: Letting players use thiefs class? (Read 1,068 times)
Falconer Level 9 Sorcerer Cleric of OD&D member is offline
OD&D, Middle-earth, Star Trek TOS
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,338 Location: Chicago, IL Karma: 51
Re: Letting players use thiefs class? « Reply #15 on Jan 12, 2012, 12:54am »
Mike, I think it’s still a good idea for groups new to OD&D to try to make due without the Thief class for a while. It helps to figure out how to manage without them, so that when you do introduce Thieves, it’s clear they are **experts** whose abilities allow them go above and beyond normal sneakiness. Perhaps they should be allowed as referee-controlled NPCs before they are allowed as PCs.
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
I definitely encourage you to NOT allow the Thief class, especially if you are already so inclined. Suggest the player consider playing an Elf or Hobbit.
I have been running a 3 LBBs campaign now for 30 months and counting and I do not use the Thief Class. My players can each attempt anything that a thief can do and it doesn't matter if they are fighter, mage or cleric. It works quite well this way.
Caveat: I don't use thieves because I just don't care for them, for me they just don't fit as an openly used character class. YMMV
The correct answer, I'm afraid, is "whatever you think."
An ordinary medieval type lock, even a first level thief could get open in five minutes or less if undisturbed.
For that matter, I've hidden in shadows. I stood next to a bush in the corner of an outside chimney at night and had half a dozen people walk by me close enough to touch and never see me because they weren't looking.
Quite frankly, the answer is 'however you want it to be.'
Mike, I think it’s still a good idea for groups new to OD&D to try to make due without the Thief class for a while. It helps to figure out how to manage without them, so that when you do introduce Thieves, it’s clear they are **experts** whose abilities allow them go above and beyond normal sneakiness. Perhaps they should be allowed as referee-controlled NPCs before they are allowed as PCs.
There's something to be said for that.
On the other hand, for my replacement thief, I reimagined most of the thief abilities as being surprise-related. For example, a party that doesn't have a thief can get past a locked door by breaking it down, but that means that any monster behind the door won't be surprised; the way I see it, a thief's Pick Locks talent is a chance to surprise the monster anyways. A non-thief who nevertheless knows how to pick locks won't be any better at avoiding surprise than a fighter bashing the door down; the non-thief version of the talent is thus just a way to avoid damaging a locked door or chest.
Joined: Jul 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 561 Karma: 17
Re: Letting players use thiefs class? « Reply #19 on Jan 12, 2012, 2:35pm »
Human, leather armor, all weapons, all demi-human search and stealth abilities (sloping passages, new construction, hidden doors, increase surprise), automatically "keen eared" , mu scroll use at 10th level.
Human, leather armor, all weapons, all demi-human search and stealth abilities (sloping passages, new construction, hidden doors, increase surprise), automatically "keen eared" , mu scroll use at 10th level.
Viola, gray mouser/thief class.
I've thought of doing the same thing myself. Would yours fight as a cleric or MU? What about hit dice?
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,212 Location: Melbourne, Australia Karma: 195
Re: Letting players use thiefs class? « Reply #22 on Jan 14, 2012, 3:10am »
It is often part of the ref's role to educate the group.
This is pretty obvious when the players are new to D&D in general, but can be equally so when the players are new to "old skool". Perhaps especially then.
The more experienced players might need to dump a whole lot of baggage they've accumulated down through the versions, and it's mainly up to the ref to help them out...
Judicious use of the thief can be a compelling part of this "eduction", IMHO.
It is often part of the ref's role to educate the group.
And this is not acknowledged enough in our hobby. Have an exalt for bringing this up again.
People often think I'm joking when I tell them, but I'm absolutely convinced that this hobby is what inspired and equipped me for a life in education, training, and public speaking. I learned so much by the use of imagination, description, explanation, creating scenarios (aka "lesson plan"), leading group discussions, bringing other people into a group... and I could go on and on.
[sorry for the O.T., but I get pretty passionate about this]
And this is not acknowledged enough in our hobby. Have an exalt for bringing this up again.
People often think I'm joking when I tell them, but I'm absolutely convinced that this hobby is what inspired and equipped me for a life in education, training, and public speaking. I learned so much by the use of imagination, description, explanation, creating scenarios (aka "lesson plan"), leading group discussions, bringing other people into a group... and I could go on and on.
[sorry for the O.T., but I get pretty passionate about this]
I could definitely see this. I can't wait to introduce my 3 year old to D&D.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 517 Location: Corvallis, OR Karma: 13
Re: Letting players use thiefs class? « Reply #27 on Jan 16, 2012, 1:42pm »
I'm going through this as well - whether or not to allow the Thief class in an upcoming campaign. My plan thus far is to present only the three classes from Men & Magic. If anyone specifically asks about being a thief, range, ect. I'll be more than happy to accommodation.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 107 Karma: 4
Re: Letting players use thiefs class? « Reply #29 on Jan 17, 2012, 12:08pm »
Just to be a prick: you realise he hasn't invented that line, right? It's a paraphrase of something one James Nicoll once said about the English language and its vocabulary.
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