Alex
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
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Post by Alex on Jun 7, 2010 13:42:11 GMT -6
Here's a thread for the publication side rather than the content side. I don't have and haven't ever seen the brown box, so I don't know what the booklets were like. Comparison to white box booklets is welcome. I have two copies of white box (early, contains balrogs). I'm interested in the materials used to publish them. I like the stiffer, heavier feel of the material compared to later RPG products and think that for a booklet form that's the best way to go. I make my own stuff in booklet form and would love to use the same types of material used by OD&D. Until now I've just used regular printer/copier paper (20 pound bright white) and it just doesn't look or feel authentic (though I still love them in booklet form).
My guess is that the cover is about 80# card stock and the pages are probably about 32# flat white. Anyone with specific knowledge or just printing experience want to weigh* in?
*Wasn't thinking of making a pun, but it's not bad.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 7, 2010 16:51:52 GMT -6
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Alex
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
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Post by Alex on Jun 8, 2010 7:01:38 GMT -6
Interesting general comparison, but sadly that isn't directly helpful in paper selection to create a similar, authentic feeling product (or alternate/replacement cover, as I intend to try).
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 8, 2010 7:23:18 GMT -6
The cover stock is 90#--you can buy the actual stock, though many desktop printers don't like it due to the weight and texturing. If I recall right, the interior paper was 25# but I could be mistaken about that. |
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 8, 2010 8:21:50 GMT -6
The copies of CARCOSA out there that I printed used 24-pound paper. One guy said that the paper might be TOO sturdy for his tastes!  |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 8, 2010 16:53:30 GMT -6
The cover stock is 90#--you can buy the actual stock, though many desktop printers don't like it due to the weight and texturing. If I recall right, the interior paper was 25# but I could be mistaken about that. Which print are we talking here? As noted above, there is a significant difference between them... and (to me at least) the additional weight of the 1st print feels a lot nicer than the relatively flimsy 6th print. |
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 9, 2010 5:41:58 GMT -6
The 90# stock matches my 5th print, which is significantly heavier than my 6th prints. I've never held a 1st print.
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Alex
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
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Post by Alex on Jun 9, 2010 8:47:37 GMT -6
thegreyelf, how certain are you of this paper link? All the textured paper sales online I've seen have high resolution pictures so you can see the texture. This one does not and the little icon could be the same as OD&D or it could be totally different. Have you bought some? If so, how well were you able to print on it? I also notice they don't have a grey-blue shade. I saw a Chainmail 3rd edition at NTRPGCon this weekend that was slate or grey-blue in color but otherwise looked similar (didn't get a close look since it was in a bag and belonged to someone else). Have you seen paper like this as well?
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 9, 2010 13:10:13 GMT -6
I have ordered it--the link I provided is to a match for the 3 LBB covers. I'm 100% certain. Now, it does not print well unless you have a top-feed inkjet printer, and then you will need to give it a little push to get it started. Tray- and front-fed printers do not like the thickness, rough edges, or texturing and will just hang up. [EDIT]here's a photo I took. My 5th print book is on the left, one I made on my printer with the cardstock is on the right. The fonts aren't a perfect match as I was still playing with the format to reproduce the covers properly, but you can see the cover stock is a pretty perfect match. CLICKY FOR IMAGE |
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 9, 2010 13:15:10 GMT -6
As for Chainmail, I've seen three versions of it--one on metallic silver cardstock that is saddle-stitched (staple bound), one on metallic silver cardstock that is plastic spiral bound, and one on goldenrod cardstock that is not textured. I own both of the versions on metallic silver.
I cannot find metallic silver cardstock anywhere. Plain goldenrod cardstock should be easy enough to get hold of, though, and this will mimic the Chainmail 3rd edition first print. Since it is not textured, I might be inclined to go with 100# stock instead of 90.
Silver cardstock with saddle-stitching is the 3rd edition 2nd print, and silver spiral bound is 3rd edition 3rd print and up.
What you likely saw at the con was a metallic silver cover that had been worn with age so that the shine was gone.
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Alex
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
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Post by Alex on Jun 10, 2010 7:15:08 GMT -6
Thanks, thegreyelf. That picture convinces me. Did you make the booklet yourself or use a service (Office Depot, local print shop, etc)? I've been wondering if I'll have to do everything myself from printing to folding to binding due to copywrite concerns. I can print, fold, and staple it myself, but it would be so much easier if I could pay someone to do it.
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Post by tavis on Jun 10, 2010 7:25:38 GMT -6
One thing I learned from Oban/Maldoor, the NY Red Box's book-binding enthusiast, is to make sure you align the grain of the paper so it's perpendicular to the fold of the booklet.
He showed us that the best way to get a feel for this is to take two sheaves of regular paper and fold each of them along a different axis. One will have a sharper crease and lie flat in a booklet; the other will have a dull crease and tend to spring up. Now look at the texture of the paper, holding it up to the light, examining the surface in bright light, etc. to see the fibers of the paper & how they relate to its folding behavior.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 10, 2010 12:38:53 GMT -6
I did it all myself. It's not difficult if you have a basic understanding of how to use booklet printing functions in Acrobat. As I said, though, if your printer is not a top-feed printer, you'll have problems with the cover stock. Tray fed printers do not like the stock, as the edges are rough and the texturing makes it hard for the wheels to grab the paper and pull it through.
Kinko's will refuse to do it due to copyright concerns (though they did once replace a rusty staple in an original for me).
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 10, 2010 20:14:30 GMT -6
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Alex
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
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Post by Alex on Jun 11, 2010 13:09:52 GMT -6
Jason and others that have tried replicas, what were the fonts used on the covers?
Edit 1: Nevermind, found the TSR font reference in the Wayback Machine in a thread on Dragonsfoot.
Edit 2: But that only helps on the famous DUNGEONS & DRAGONS font. What was the font used for the rest of the text on the cover? The closest I have in my font folder is Microsoft Sans Serif. It's about right, but not heavy/wide enough for the names GYGAX & ARNESON.
Edit 3: Okay, seems the majority of text is Franklin Gothic Heavy. Can't quite find the right font for GYGAX & ARNESON still, but Arial Bold seems an adequate place holder.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 11, 2010 23:08:26 GMT -6
3 LBBs: Quentin Caps, Franklin Gothic Extra Condensed, Franklin Gothic Bold, Futura Bold
Supplements: Quentin Caps, Times New Roman bold
Chainmail: Old English (Take your pick), some extra-bold version of Times New that I haven't been able to track down, so I just use Times New Roman Bold.
The version of Quentin Caps that is out there online will not embed into PDF files due to licensing restrictions placed on it. So I usually make a graphic of the title in Paint Shop Pro (GIMP will work, too) and then insert it into the document.
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Post by verhaden on Feb 27, 2013 15:31:34 GMT -6
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