Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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[Fiction] Elric « Thread Started on Apr 4, 2008, 2:35pm »
Driver wanted to discuss some of the classic fiction which inspired Dungeons & Dragons. I thought I'd kick off a discussion of Elric.
Elric is an anti-hero, has a magic sword, and uses summoning magic instead of memorize-and-shoot. Elric is often considered to be one of the big Law v. Chaos models.
Elric has undergone several different phases: 1. Original stories published in magazines. 2. Stories organized into book form with a more consistent overall storyline and "eternal champion" theme. 3. Several newer stories were written years after the main sequence.
I started a thread over on DF about the "new" Elric book coming out. It appears that there is a collection of Elric stories in the form they first appeared in magazines. Here's the thread at DF in case anyone is interested.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
It's been a long time since I read Elric, but he was one of my favorites. I have the first three Elric books on my spring reading list, along with some Corum and Hawkmoon (never read either).
IIRC, Donblas the Justice Bringer was one of the only gods in DDG with 400 hp and straight 25s, so paladins in our old campaigns generally worshipped him. :B
And, of course, no one EVER gives back Blackrazor like they're supposed to.
I recently re-read The Stealer of Souls and Stormbringer in their original Lancer Books editions from the 60s, before they were revised and reorganized with later-written material interspersed. I greatly enjoyed every story in the first volume every bit as much as when I first read them as a kid, if not moreso. Stormbringer didn't hold up as well -- the tonal shift between the end of "The Flamebringers" (cautiously optimistic, but with the weight of impending doom) and the beginning of Stormbringer (OMG the world is ending Right Now! Blood! Guts everywhere!) was too sudden and drastic, and what comes after goes increasingly over the top in a way which screams "awesome!" when you're 13 years old and have never read anything like it before ("ZOMG he's killing all the main characters!") but from an adult perspective comes off more as adolescent melodrama and posing (no wonder White Wolf games named themselves after his work ). While I think The Stealer of Souls is a book I could continue to come back to, I can't really say the same for Stormbringer. And I have no desire at all to re-read any of the later stuff (The Sailor on the Seas of Fate, The Vanishing Tower, The Revenge of the Rose, etc.) which even at the time felt ponderous, over-written, and burdened by the intrusion of the Eternal Champion business.
My current sweeping judgment on the Elric saga is that it's at its best when it's closest to being a copy of Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword (which was, by Moorcock's own admission, his biggest influence) and the further afield it goes from that the less good it is.
I strongly agree, Foster. I prefer the original set of Elric short stories:
The Dreaming City (1961) While the Gods Laugh (1962) The Stealer of Souls (1962) Kings in Darkness (1962) The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams (1962) The Last Enchantment (1962)
Moorcock originally intended for these stories to be the only Elric stories, but in 1965 he changed his mind with "Stormbringer" (which, as Foster indicates, is the most over-the-top [and, frankly, ridiculous] book I've ever read).
I don't believe I've read "The Last Enchantment," unless it was under another name (such as "The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams," which I read under the title "The Flamebringers"). Where can it be found?
I haven't read the Elric stories in years, but I don't think I'm going to. Moorcock was one of my favorite authors when I was younger (junior high), but I recently re-read the Corum stories and found them disappointing and not as good as I remembered (not the story -- just the writing). I decided not to re-read any more Moorcock; I want to keep my fond memories of his stories intact.
I don't believe I've read "The Last Enchantment," unless it was under another name (such as "The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams," which I read under the title "The Flamebringers"). Where can it be found?
As far as I know, the only place it is published is in the paperback Elric at the End of Time. It is a very short story (perhaps 15 pages). It's probably my least favorite of the original six Elric stories.
As far as I know, the only place it is published is in the paperback Elric at the End of Time. It is a very short story (perhaps 15 pages). It's probably my least favorite of the original six Elric stories.
Ah, that would explain it. Never had that book. As a kid I dismissed it as cheesy because Moorcock was bringing Elric back post-Stormbringer, not realizing at the time that 2/3 of the 6-volume "canonical" Elric series was written that same way; by the time I figured out the truth I was enough past my Elric phase that I just never bothered to go back and pick it up. Perhaps I will now, since I believe it's fairly common in used bookstores...
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Oddly enough, I just got some Elric (and Corum) books from my local Half Price Books a few months ago, and I agree. They were great when I was in High School, but they're not as good today. There are still some good ideas and monsters and such, but the writing doesn't seem to live up.
On the other hand, I've also gotten some Robert E. Howard. Now those stories hold up, even after all these years!
I haven't read the Elric stories in years, but I don't think I'm going to. Moorcock was one of my favorite authors when I was younger (junior high), but I recently re-read the Corum stories and found them disappointing and not as good as I remembered (not the story -- just the writing). I decided not to re-read any more Moorcock; I want to keep my fond memories of his stories intact.
This is actually one of the reasons that I enjoy reading the revisions, as well as the originals: Moorcock is a much better writer even by the time he's writing The Warhound and the World's Pain in the early '80s (likely my favorite MM fantasy novel), much less what he's writing now. Sure, he's evolved the storylines substantially, and added lots of material between the original Elric books (and those may not appeal to you if you prefer the original, rawest forms of Elric), but his writing has certainly matured (in a good way) with each passing decade. IMO of course
The Elric stories, even the original ones, are not what I'd call great literature. They can be fun to read if you're in a certain frame of mind. They have many fascinating ideas, but the execution is often lacking IMO. Of course, it's possible that some of these flaws are by design, in that the Elric stories were written at least partially as Moorcock's answer to both the Howardian and Tolkienian brands of fantasy. Elric is intended to be the anti-Conan and the Young Kingdoms are the anti-Middle Earth. In this respect, the stories are also (mostly) the anti-D&D as well, since they reject much of the literary underpinnings of the game.
This is actually one of the reasons that I enjoy reading the revisions, as well as the originals: Moorcock is a much better writer even by the time he's writing The Warhound and the World's Pain in the early '80s (likely my favorite MM fantasy novel), much less what he's writing now. Sure, he's evolved the storylines substantially, and added lots of material between the original Elric books (and those may not appeal to you if you prefer the original, rawest forms of Elric), but his writing has certainly matured (in a good way) with each passing decade. IMO of course
Indeed, Moorcock is much better as a writer and has a much different style in his later works than in the 60s, to the point where I almost think of him as two separate writers -- one who wrote the pulpy Elric, Hawkmoon, and Kane of Mars stories, and another who wrote Gloriana, Mother London, and the Von Bek series. The problem is when they mix, when they're juxtaposed, and when the latter guy tries to rework and revise the former guy's work. The early stuff is sloppily written and a lot of potential ideas aren't fully explored, but they're fun and they move along. The later stuff is more carefully crafted and artfully written but also tends to be slow and more difficult to grasp. I appreciate the later guy, I'm glad he's around and writing, but after a long day at work when I'm looking for some enjoyable reading I'm much more likely to turn to the former guy.
I'm trying to get my son to read some of the Elric stories. He's a huge fan of AD&D Drow and Warhammer "Dark Elves" (like any teenager nowadays seems to be) but when I described the character he kept saying that it's been done.
Yeah, but Elric came first! Drzzt and other anti-heroes are patterned after him, not the other way around!
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
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). While I think The Stealer of Souls is a book I could continue to come back to, I can't really say the same for Stormbringer. And I have no desire at all to re-read any of the later stuff (The Sailor on the Seas of Fate, The Vanishing Tower, The Revenge of the Rose, etc.) which even at the time felt ponderous, over-written, and burdened by the intrusion of the Eternal Champion business. ![[avatar]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lpL870wV2A4/SSi3dCn1SZI/AAAAAAAACl4/XuB-bD4_W4Q/s400/carcosa.png "[avatar]")
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