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Post by Alex Schroeder on Jun 6, 2011 2:50:24 GMT -6
Hi all I'm going to be start playtesting the material I have for Darkness Beneath level 13: Caverns of Slime. I have three players and four sessions. My problem: I don't have enough experience with high level characters. Do you have some example parties for me? I'll be using the Labyrinth Lord rules, if that matters. What level would you create them at? What magic items would you give them? I'm fine with providing them with henchmen and that – basically I want to provide with the party that readers of Fight On might be seeing in their own games. Heeelp! Cheers Alex
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Post by calithena on Jun 6, 2011 7:21:41 GMT -6
It is awesome that you are playtesting. I am looking forward to hearing about what happens!
One issue with high level play is that there is actually, in old D&D, a wide disparity between characters depending on the style of game they have been in and what kinds of things they have found.
Here are some PC sketches off the top of my head:
Ao of the Opals 13th level Human Magic-User Staff of Wizardry, Ioun Stones, Queen Ehlissa's Marvelous Nightengale, potions and scrolls, etc.
Hunarr "Horny" Hrunax 10th level Fighting Minotaur has natural Giant Strength, gets +1 attack/round with horns (or can do a horn-only charge attack for x3 damage), +2 natural bonus to AC, +1 hp/die for size, +4 battleaxe, +2 plate mail, potions, Collapsing Ladder (extradimensional, looks like two connected iron rungs in base form, if anyone with Str 15+ pulls them apart they can be stretched out as long as feasible (10'/round) to make a ladder up to 200' long); if top rung is held by owner a command word snaps it back into original form in 1 melee round), +2 Light Bull-ista (3d6+2 damage, fires once/2 rounds, giant strength to reload w/o windlass etc., like a giant crossbow with a stupid pun), Figurine of Wondrous Power (Gorgon)
Ebekor Besk 11th level Egyptian Dwarf Cleric of Bes Supernatural Ability: Makes all saving throws on a roll of 2+. +3 Plate Mail, +3 Shield, +3 Double Headed Returning Serpent Headed Throwing Hammer (can make 2 attacks at range for regular damage plus save vs. serpent poison and then returns to hand), Staff of Water (can detect all water within 200' with some discrimination, can create a spring of fresh water, part bodies of water, lets the bearer walk on water, and can form a bubble of air to allow underwater travel to surface dwellers), potions and scrolls
Mason Capwell 16th level Hobbit Thief The Bones of Gith: +2 daggers, +4 vs. incorporeal and undead, continue to attack target thrown on their own at (a la dancing) until target or owner of daggers is slain, return to thrower when done or on a command word Shortsword of Life Stealing, 3 Silver Daggers, Sling with 12 Incendiary Grenades, Worn Traveler’s Outfit and Cloak, Sunhat, Four jeweled rings worth a total of 19,000 gp (fingers), Spectacles of Infrared Vision, +1 Leather Armor, Ring of Protection +4, Ring of Invisibility, Amulet of Healing (as Cure Serious Wounds 3x/day), Bandolier for daggers and grenades, Bag of Holding (1000 lb limit) containing +2 Thieves' Tools, +4 Lockpicks, a Climber's Kit, a Rod of Lordly Might, a Chime of Opening with 31 charges, a Scroll with Gust of Wind, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, and Ray of Enfeeblement, a Scroll with Detect Secret Doors and Invisibility, a Scroll of Protection from Lycanthropes in a Leather Scroll Case, Dozens of Maps, a Club, a Large Sack, a Backpack, 50’ of Silk Rope w/Grappling Hook, 3 Iron Spikes, 1 Sprig Belladonna, 2 Cloves Garlic, 1 Sprig Wolvesbane, 14 bottles of excellent wine, pipe and several varieties of fine pipeweed, 14 days of trail rations, Vial of Alkaline Solution, Vial of Acid Solution, 2 Vials of Acid, 1 Vial of Super-Strength Acid, 4 Vials of Holy Water, 2 Flasks of Oil, 2 Potions of Neutralize Poison, Potion of healing, jar of Pure Water, 2 Empty Vials, Oilskin-wrapped dead rat, 2 Cubes of Continuous Light, 23,500 gp worth of gems
Maybe some of that will be helpful to you. Thanks again!
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Post by Alex Schroeder on Jun 6, 2011 18:44:20 GMT -6
Thank you very much! I think I'll definitely have to change some of the stuff I wrote – and I'll need to make some of the encounters tougher. I posted some results of the play test on my blog in terms of what I need to change but no actual play report. Maybe I'll do that before the next session. The main problem I see by now is that I printed what I have which I consider to be around 10-20% of what it is going to be and I already needed 10 pages to print it without any of my placeholder sketches. Yikes! I will need to do some editing and cutting before I submit anything!
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Post by calithena on Jun 6, 2011 18:47:30 GMT -6
We are still a couple months away from needing it, but I can help you whip things into shape when the time comes. The guys I provided you are somewhat up-powered but not out-of-this-world crazy compared to what I have seen in the field. Of course I am West Coast, yo.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 6, 2011 22:23:58 GMT -6
FWIW, I play-tested a level 8 dungeon I wrote for Darkness Beneath a while back with a party of six 8th level PCs, and the result was an eye opener.
Even modestly equipped (meaning only a handful of magic items to go around) the PCs were really tough compared to the run of the mill monsters. You will notice right off the bat that the fighter type PCs will have ACs approaching 0 (or even better), while many of the by-the-book monsters with 8 to 12 HD still have comparatively poor ACs. So the PCs hit frequently, and get hit infrequently.
High level magic-users can nuke stuff more or less at will.
To make it challenging for the players you'll need genuinely hard opposition. Demon Princes, Storm Giants, groups of Dragons, packs of T-rexes and so on are the order of the day!
High level NPC characters can make for some tough customers too.
edit: fixed typos
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Post by calithena on Jun 7, 2011 5:37:32 GMT -6
Ways has a point, but the other thing to consider in old D&D is that it's an attrition game. Big dungeons, big wilderness adventures, healing only from potions and spells basically. It is true that clerics can replenish spells but if you limit rest areas so PCs have to fight ten or twenty fights or more before they can rest then things start to get more interesting. (Also having no clerics at all helps make things more interesting.)
That said, adopting some AD&D conventions for monsters at the higher levels, with respect to damage and armor class and special abilities and the like, can also help with the issue Ways is pointing out.
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Post by calithena on Jun 7, 2011 5:38:50 GMT -6
"Caverns of Slime" can also easily include lots of monsters with weird immunities and attacks and slime demon type things with awesome powers, that will mix things up for smug high levelers. I'm sure it will be great!
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Post by kelvingreen on Jun 7, 2011 11:45:47 GMT -6
Also bear in mind that a megadungeon is designed so that you have to get through levels one to twelve before you get to level thirteen. Now you may have cleared them and gone back to rest, but you still have to get there, and the GM is still rolling random encounters all the time.
I mention this only as something which might be forgotten if one runs a dungeon level in isolation; don't forget about the bumps and bruises a party would pick up -- and the spells and resources they'd use up -- in normal play on their way to the level.
Also, apologies if I am stating the blindingly obvious; you all have much more experience playing and running old-school games than I do.
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